Got a P4Parking ticket in the allocated parking where I actually live

diffstorm

Details:

• What: Parking Charge Notice (PCN) - No valid permit on visible display
• When: 27/12/2024 at 09:48
• Where: Edinburgh, Scotland

Hello all,

I recently moved from Bristol to Edinburgh and now rent a flat with a dedicated parking space. There are signs displayed around the parking area.

I have a valid parking permit, but unfortunately, on the morning of 27/12/2024, it had fallen from the dashboard without me noticing. I found a PCN on my car for "No valid permit on visible display." The notice was a typical thermal-printed slip.

What I did:
In a rush, I used their online appeal process, assuming they would cancel the charge once I explained. I selected the option that I am the keeper and submitted an appeal, stating:
"I have a valid permit, but it fell from the dashboard. Please remove the charge."
I also included pictures of the car with the permit clearly displayed afterward.

What happened next:
My appeal was rejected with the standard response about the terms and conditions requiring the permit to be visible at all times. They maintained the charge.

Current status:

• I have not made further contact with them since the rejection.
• They have offered the "discounted" payment of £60 until 17th January 2025, after which it increases to £100.

My questions:

1. Since I have already appealed through their system (mistakenly without waiting for their letter) and identified myself as the keeper, do I still have a chance for a successful appeal through POPLA?
2. I’ve read the NEWBIE thread, but I’m finding it difficult to piece everything together as this is my first time dealing with such an issue.

Any guidance on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!

Here is the answer to appeal on P4Parking web page:

Re: Parking Charge Notice Number --- (Vehicle: ---)

Site: ----

Issue date: 27/12/2024

POPLA Verification Code: ----

Thank you for your correspondence received on 27/12/2024, which has been passed for our attention and which we have read with interest. We have reviewed the case and considered the comments that you have made.

Further to and in response to your appeal, P4Parking has been contracted by the landowners or agents thereof to ensure that vehicles are only allowed to be parked on the land with authority. This authority is dependent upon the rules as laid down by the landowners or bodies acting on behalf of such estate, land or development. P4Parking has the authority to charge any vehicle that is parked contrary to these regulations.

It is the responsibility of the person parking to demonstrate the correct display of the relevant permit and or adherence to the rules governing the parking of the vehicle(s) within the grounds. The area where your vehicle was charged has a policy to which all attending vehicles must park within the pre-informed parking criteria. The contravention you have been breached with specifically is for:

NO VALID PERMIT ON VISIBLE DISPLAY

Although we sympathise with your concerns, at the time of your vehicle contravention and subsequent issuance with a Parking Charge Notice the vehicle was in breach of the above and therefore, correctly charged under the power given to us by the landowner. When parking on private land, a motorist freely enters into an agreement to abide by the conditions of parking in return for permission to park. It is the motorist’s responsibility to ensure that he or she abides by any clearly displayed conditions of parking.

With regards to your appeal of the parking charge issued and having inspected all data available, which includes your letter and contents of appeal, photographs taken at the time of the charge issued by the warden and all additional 3rd party information available to us, we must make the following points very clearly.

It is the duty of the driver to read the signage placed on the development. The signs on the development clearly state "All vehicles parked within these private grounds and not displaying an authorized parking permit or parked outside of this development's parking regulations will be charged via the issuance of a parking charge notice. Enforcement may take place at any time."

Having read your statement, it is the motorist responsibility to read the warning notices on the development and abide to the parking regulations and adhere to the rules governing the parking of the vehicle(s) within the grounds.

Our patrol officer has produced pictorial evidence showing that there was no permit on visible display, please find pictorial evidence taken at the time the contravention occurred. It is the driver's responsibility to make sure the permit is visibly displayed on the front windscreen/dashboard of the vehicle whilst parked within the managed development to be validated. Onus is on the driver to ensure the permit is visible before leaving the vehicle unattended.

The patrol officer has carried out his duties correctly as instructed by the landowner. Motorists parking on private land must comply with the advertised terms and conditions, therefore the patrol officer had reasonable cause to issue a parking charge notice on your vehicle.

Therefore the parking charge notice was issued correctly according to the instructions set out by the landowners, please see attached pictorial evidence below.

After careful consideration, we must advise you that your appeal for this PCN has been REJECTED.

We are therefore unable to cancel the Parking Charge Notice as it was issued correctly. We have now extended the discounted payment period by 14 days to allow you time to pay the discounted settlement amount. Please now make payment of £60 to reach us by 17/01/2025 or £100 to reach us by 31/01/2025. We must advise you that once the discounted settlement rate passes it will not be offered again. You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure, you have the legal right to submit a second appeal to POPLA. P4Parking cannot deal with any subsequent appeal relating to this parking charge notice.

Furthermore, it is our duty to inform you that if you should choose to submit to POPLA (Parking on Private Land Appeals), you will lose all the opportunities to pay the discount rate. If you want to appeal, you must do so within 28 days of the date this notice of rejection has been sent.

If your appeal is refused then the full parking charge will be due as the time for any early payment discount offered by the operator will have passed. Do not pay the charge if you are appealing. If your appeal is allowed you have nothing to pay. If your appeal is refused, in order to avoid any further action by the operator, you should then pay the full parking charge within 28 days.

The quickest and easiest way to submit your appeal to POPLA is online at www.popla.co.uk ---- POPLA verification code

By law, we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services provides

an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to deal with your appeal, however, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative dispute resolution service. As such should you wish to appeal, then you must do so to POPLA, as explained above.

Please note, POPLA only applies in England, Wales and Scotland and it does not extend to tickets issued in Northern Ireland.

Payments can be made choosing one of the alternatives:

Online p4parking.ec6pay.com

Send a cheque or postal order to Po Box 71107 London SE18 9LB payable to P4Parking UK LTD

1. Please ensure that you write the Parking Charge reference number on the reverse of the Cheque or Postal Order

2. Please note that Post Dated Cheques will not be accepted

3. If you require a receipt, you will need to specify this along with your payment AND include a stamped self addressed envelope.

You are advised to send postal payments by recorded delivery!

Call our automated payment line 03332407298

Choosing not to pay or not to submit an appeal to POPLA within the relevant time frame will give us the freedom to legally solve this outstanding Debt. All costs associated with this process will be added to the amount outstanding.

We are sorry this is not the answer for which you would have hoped.

Coupon-mad

It's Scotland.  Ignore it entirely.

Search the forum for Scotland new law parking keeper 2025 to learn about the changes in a year or so which won't affect this PCN, but you do need to know about re new private parking PCNs and the fact that keeper liability is coming to your country, if you stay in Scotland.

diffstorm

I have revealed myself by appealing on P4 Parking appeal page. In what grounds I shall ignore it?
Sorry, I could not find the exact page you are pointing to. I talked to some people around, they do not know anything about ignoring the ticket. Could you give me a link to read about it please?
I will stay in Edinburgh for a while. I'd appreciate your help to understands more about it.

ChirpyChicken

The people you talked obviously know nothing
You can find the page quite easily by searching
You ignore as per the advice given.

kryten3000

Single charges don't usually go to court in Scotland because the process is very different, more expensive for the Claimant and they cannot obtain costs.

Make sure you don't get any more charges, but also check if you are required by the terms of your lease/tenancy to display a permit at all.  Complain to the managing agent and see if you can opt your space out of the "management".

Coupon-mad

diffstorm said:

I have revealed myself by appealing on P4 Parking appeal page. In what grounds I shall ignore it?
Sorry, I could not find the exact page you are pointing to. I talked to some people around, they do not know anything about ignoring the ticket. Could you give me a link to read about it please?
I will stay in Edinburgh for a while. I'd appreciate your help to understands more about it.

No link needed and we won't do the search ourselves! Search for the phrase and read the results (plural). I'm not pointing you to a single thread. Just read and learn.

Nobody appeals in Scotland. Nobody pays.

Nothing will happen. Read the search results.