Empty Flat investigations

letsgotosanfrancisco

Sorry not sure what category this comes under.

Hi.  I live in a block of 5 flats....all share of freehold where we all contribute to pay for communal works, buildings insurance etc.

Issue is that one of the flats has sadly been empty since 2016.   The owner passed away and left it to his partner who passed away shortly afterwards.    As a result, nobody is looking to sell the flat(we believe the partner had family in the Caribbean) but they have never visited or wanted to be involved.

Since that time we have all paid for a new driveway, rendering etc as well as annual insurance.    Does anyone know where we stand with regard to instructing an estate agent to put a charge on the flat for if and when someone does move in....if they ever do or look into getting the flat sold we are all paying extra whilst it stands empty.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

Many thanks

Apologies if this should go on another board.

TELLIT01

An estate agent won't be able to put a charge on the empty flat.  You need professional legal advice on any way to move things forward.  A word of warning, a property near us has apparently been empty for over 10 years because of a dispute between family members and the place only looks decent because the neighbouring properties occasionally clean up the garden.  I very much doubt you will get a quick, or cheap, resolution to this.

eddddy

As you probably know, being joint owners of a freehold building has major responsibilities. You need a good understanding of the law, leases, etc. Unless you have really have good knowledge of this stuff, I think you'll need professional help with this.


As soon as you realised there was a problem, you should have started to make sure you followed the letter of the law. In simplified terms, the route that freeholders should normally follow is something like this:

• 1) Whenever major works were required, the freeholders would do a section 20 consultation (as required by law), or got signed agreements to pay the costs from all the leaseholders

• 2) The freeholders would send Service Charge bills in the correct legal format to Leaseholders (within 18 months)

• 3) The freeholders send the Service Charge bills addressed to the last known leaseholder (even if you think they have died). It's up to the leaseholder's executor/heirs to inform you of any changes. If they haven't, it's their fault, not the freeholders.

• 3) If a leaseholder doesn't pay their Service Charge, the Freeholders take enforcement action

• 4) Ultimately, enforcement action means forfeiting the lease - i.e. The freeholders repossess the flat

• 5) The freeholders then sell the flat with a new lease - and use the money to pay the Service Charge Bills, and keep the rest of the money as a free bonus

Unfortunately, I suspect you haven't followed the letter of the law.

So you probably need to consult a specialist leasehold solicitor, who will look at the precise detail of what you have and haven't done correctly - and tell you whether you're able to take enforcement action.


Perhaps the worst case scenario is that an heir comes along and claims the flat, and you have no way of 'forcing' them to pay the outstanding Service Charges, because you haven't correctly followed the steps above.

Okell

letsgotosanfrancisco said:

Sorry not sure what category this comes under...

... Apologies if this should go on another board.

You might be better advised to post here:  House buying, renting & selling — MoneySavingExpert Forum

I'll ask the site team if they can move it.  (Might be tomorrow now)

Olinda99

it has been my experience that when a flat is sold any service charge etc arrears are paid out of the sale proceeds before the lease is reassigned. The purchaser's solicitor will (should) enquire of you if there are arrears.

HampshireH

Most leases will have various values in it relating to insurance and also occupying the property and not leaving it vacant for more than 30 days.

Are the normal service charges being paid (not s.20 works)?

If this flat hadn't been visited in 8 years and the lease allows for forfeiture this could be an options via the courts

Are your buildings insurance aware and still happy to cover or are you all in breach there

eddddy

HampshireH said:

Are the normal service charges being paid (not s.20 works)?

If this flat hadn't been visited in 8 years and the lease allows for forfeiture this could be an options via the courts

A lot depends on whether the freeholders have been sending legally correct Service Charge bills addressed to the dead leaseholder for the past 8 years.

If they haven't been sending legally correct bills, in law, there are no Service Charges payable, so no arrears - so no scope for enforcement and forfeiture.


But the freeholders could probably start sending legally correct Service Charge bills now, and wait for them to become unpaid - and then start the enforcement/forfeiture process.

But in that situation, if somebody turns up and claims the flat and pays the new legally correct service charge bills, the freeholders probably won't be able to claim for most of the 8 years of unbilled service charges.

(However, the freeholders might be able to claim for some/all of the last 18 months of Service Charges.)



Alternatively, the freeholders might be able to start enforcement/forfeiture process for other breaches of the lease - e.g. breaching insurance terms

eddddy

Olinda99 said:

it has been my experience that when a flat is sold any service charge etc arrears are paid out of the sale proceeds before the lease is reassigned. The purchaser's solicitor will (should) enquire of you if there are arrears.

As mentioned above - unless the freeholders have done section 20 consultations, issued Service Charge bills in the correct legal format, according to the lease, etc, etc - then legally there are no Service Charge Arrears.

ThisIsWeird

letsgotosanfrancisco said:

Sorry not sure what category this comes under.
Hi.  I live in a block of 5 flats....all share of freehold where we all contribute to pay for communal works, buildings insurance etc.
Issue is that one of the flats has sadly been empty since 2016.   The owner passed away and left it to his partner who passed away shortly afterwards.    As a result, nobody is looking to sell the flat(we believe the partner had family in the Caribbean) but they have never visited or wanted to be involved.
Since that time we have all paid for a new driveway, rendering etc as well as annual insurance.    Does anyone know where we stand with regard to instructing an estate agent to put a charge on the flat for if and when someone does move in....if they ever do or look into getting the flat sold we are all paying extra whilst it stands empty.
Any advice would be gratefully received.

I presume you have communal buildings' insurance? Could you check to see if that includes a Legal Advice/Protection policy? If so, call them up.

Whilst you are trying to sort this in the correct manner as guided above, should the flat suddenly be placed on the market, contact the EA in a recordable manner, and make it clear there are arrears and other issues which need to be resolved. This is a bit like a 'neighbourly dispute', and the EA has a responsibility to inform any interested parties about this. It might not have any enforceable legal implication, but it should make any potential buyer aware of the potential for 'issues', so they will hopefully put the onus on the seller to resolve this before exchange.

user1977

ThisIsWeird said:

letsgotosanfrancisco said:

Sorry not sure what category this comes under.
Hi.  I live in a block of 5 flats....all share of freehold where we all contribute to pay for communal works, buildings insurance etc.
Issue is that one of the flats has sadly been empty since 2016.   The owner passed away and left it to his partner who passed away shortly afterwards.    As a result, nobody is looking to sell the flat(we believe the partner had family in the Caribbean) but they have never visited or wanted to be involved.
Since that time we have all paid for a new driveway, rendering etc as well as annual insurance.    Does anyone know where we stand with regard to instructing an estate agent to put a charge on the flat for if and when someone does move in....if they ever do or look into getting the flat sold we are all paying extra whilst it stands empty.
Any advice would be gratefully received.

Whilst you are trying to sort this in the correct manner as guided above, should the flat suddenly be placed on the market, contact the EA in a recordable manner, and make it clear there are arrears and other issues which need to be resolved. This is a bit like a 'neighbourly dispute', and the EA has a responsibility to inform any interested parties about this.

If any arrears are (as is normal and expected) being cleared by the vendor from the sale proceeds, what are the "issues" for a buyer?

ThisIsWeird

user1977 said:

If any arrears are (as is normal and expected) being cleared by the vendor from the sale proceeds, what are the "issues" for a buyer?

I think it's clear that my suggestion is for if the flat was placed on the market and could sell quickly, and all be a fait accompli whilst the OP was still trying to sort the arrears issue correctly, as guided by Eddddy, for example.

If you are certain that this will not/can not be the case; that the correct process will fall automatically into place on sale, and all arrears will be recovered 'as is normal and expected', then my suggestion is obviously unnecessary.