Broken down second hand car dispute

Goudy

I am no legal expert, but you need a plan of action.

I think first you should write back (you are keeping copies, dates etc of communications?).

State clearly you intentions, the outcome you want. You might offer them a selection, refund or replacement or repair.

Inform them (what they already know) the "as seen" has no basis in UK law and no matter what you signed, that piece of paper does not affect any of your statutory rights.
 
Don't threaten with this, that of the other. Just state these are the facts, their responsibilities and the outcome you seek.

Next step would be to see if they are a member of any industry affiliations and take the matter to them.

Then of course you can open a case with both The Motor Ombudsman and your local Trading Standards.
(at this point, are the local press interested?)

I guess the final step would be small claims court.
You would need to do a letter before action and it can be a headache going to court, but if needs must.

Of course there is always the chance they totally ignore all of this, put the company into a cousin's name and just carry on if they are true snakes of the used car world. There's not much you could do about that.

Grumpy_chap

Bowties said:

Timeline of events:

• 16 December – Contacted XXX Cars, test drove the vehicle, carried out a visual inspection, and left a £200 deposit.
• 18 December – Completed the purchase of the vehicle from XXX Cars Ltd for £2,400 (including deposit).
• 
  

How were the two payments made?
Was any of the value on credit card?

Bowties said:

As you are aware, the vehicle was sold to you on an “as seen” basis, and the terms of the sale were agreed upon at the time of purchase. Additionally, the car was sold in good working condition and at a reduced price, reflecting this agreement.

XXX Cars Ltd

 

XXX Cars is a Ltd Company, so if they lose a court case they might just vanish.
How long have XXX Cars been trading at this location?
What history does Companies House show for the Ltd Co and the Directors?


While I fully agree with others that the Dealer cannot hide behind "sold as seen", is there any truth in the statement made by the Dealer?
Was the price lower than market price for the type, age, mileage, condition of the car?  
Was there any indication of faults with the car - discussion etc.?

While a car must be roadworthy, as described, fit for purpose, satisfactory quality, I believe that a Dealer can offer a car for sale "bargain price too good to be true with a clutch fault".

Bowties

Grumpy_chap said:

Bowties said:

Timeline of events:

• 16 December – Contacted XXX Cars, test drove the vehicle, carried out a visual inspection, and left a £200 deposit.
• 18 December – Completed the purchase of the vehicle from XXX Cars Ltd for £2,400 (including deposit).
• 
  

How were the two payments made?
Was any of the value on credit card?

Bowties said:

As you are aware, the vehicle was sold to you on an “as seen” basis, and the terms of the sale were agreed upon at the time of purchase. Additionally, the car was sold in good working condition and at a reduced price, reflecting this agreement.

XXX Cars Ltd

 

XXX Cars is a Ltd Company, so if they lose a court case they might just vanish.
How long have XXX Cars been trading at this location?
What history does Companies House show for the Ltd Co and the Directors?


While I fully agree with others that the Dealer cannot hide behind "sold as seen", is there any truth in the statement made by the Dealer?
Was the price lower than market price for the type, age, mileage, condition of the car?  
Was there any indication of faults with the car - discussion etc.?

While a car must be roadworthy, as described, fit for purpose, satisfactory quality, I believe that a Dealer can offer a car for sale "bargain price too good to be true with a clutch fault".

XXX Cars is a Ltd Company, so if they lose a court case they might just vanish.
How long have XXX Cars been trading at this location?
What history does Companies House show for the Ltd Co and the Directors?

- I'll find this out and report back

While I fully agree with others that the Dealer cannot hide behind "sold as seen", is there any truth in the statement made by the Dealer?
Was the price lower than market price for the type, age, mileage, condition of the car?  
Was there any indication of faults with the car - discussion etc.?

- No discussion whatsever. He made no mention of any fault. The value of the car was 'average' for its age and mileage (according to auto trader).

While a car must be roadworthy, as described, fit for purpose, satisfactory quality, I believe that a Dealer can offer a car for sale "bargain price too good to be true with a clutch fault".

- Absolutely agree, and had he made me aware of the issue I wouldn’t have bought it. I have neither the time or the money to deal with any faults. There was no mention on the advert or when i discussed the purchase of the vehicle. 

Bowties

It was founded in 2022. His name is as he introduced himself. No previous companies in his name.

And I am keeping documents and have copies of everything. I am keeping all communication via email so I have copies saved. 

How were the two payments made?
Was any of the value on credit card?
- I made the £200 deposit and the final £2,200 on the same debit card. 

m0bov

As others have said, google a template for rejecting the car, get it trailered to the company ASAP and hand over the letter with the keys. Don't engage with verbal discussion, all needs to be in writing. Get a cab home, keep receipts and follow up with a claim for expenses.

m0bov

Bowties said:

It was founded in 2022. His name is as he introduced himself. No previous companies in his name.

And I am keeping documents and have copies of everything. I am keeping all communication via email so I have copies saved. 

How were the two payments made?
Was any of the value on credit card?
- I made the £200 deposit and the final £2,200 on the same debit card. 

You might find you have some cover on the debt card. However, doing a claim could be reversed if the dealer counter claims. Worth speaking to your bank.

I wouldn't engage in trying to point out this and that with the dealer, they are clearly trying to shift cars with no come back. I would just send the car back with a rejecting letter and give them 7 days to refund and also refund your expenses. After that, its a letter giving them 7 days before small claims. Then do a claim, costs £50 or something but you get that back if you win (which sounds like you will). Don't get emotional, they most likely have done this many times. Normally when the car arrives back on a trailer they know you mean business and will give up.

jimjames

Bowties said:

jimjames said:

Bowties said:

Ectophile said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

Leave the car and all the paperwork with them, and tell them that if you don't have a full refund in the next day or two, you will be issuing a court claim.

How much was the car? If it was <£10k, it's a small claim and very straightforward.

Before doing that, check how solvent the company is.  Otherwise, you risk having no car and no money.  It's all too common for backstreet car companies to close down the moment they lose a court case.

If I hire a small vehicle is there any chance I can claim the money back from the dealer if it does go all the way?

From their response so far I think you'll be struggling to get your money back for the car let alone anything else. Can you ask them if they have a loan car - it seems unlikely but at least you've then tried to minimise the costs associated with it so will be harder to dispute. You might need to hire a car assuming you'll not get it back and anything you recover is a bonus. But it all really depends what you find out about the company.

Much of what they've said here is nonsense. The vehicle was never advertised as 'sold as seen'—not that such a phrase holds any real legal weight. My boss is frustrated because I can't get to work, I’m struggling to get to the shops, and my kids need reliable transport to attend their clubs and activities. Nightmare. 

Did you get a receipt? If so what does that say? You're right it's nonsense and they can't get out of their legal obligations by claiming that but if they are doing so then it might mean they have previous form. If you want to post the name here then we can check out the company and look what the accounts say but if they've only been going 2 years then they don't have a lot to lose by shutting down unfortunately. I suspect they knew the car was faulty and just wanted to shift it to an unsuspecting buyer I'm afraid. I can't see any reason to not publish their name, at least it will be a warning to others if they want to find out their trading tactics.

But the quote you've had for £1500 sounds very high, clutch hydraulics could cover a few things but at a non main dealer you should be able to get a clutch replaced for around half that depending on what the fault is. What is the car by the way?

Bowties

jimjames said:

Bowties said:

jimjames said:

Bowties said:

Ectophile said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

Leave the car and all the paperwork with them, and tell them that if you don't have a full refund in the next day or two, you will be issuing a court claim.

How much was the car? If it was <£10k, it's a small claim and very straightforward.

Before doing that, check how solvent the company is.  Otherwise, you risk having no car and no money.  It's all too common for backstreet car companies to close down the moment they lose a court case.

If I hire a small vehicle is there any chance I can claim the money back from the dealer if it does go all the way?

From their response so far I think you'll be struggling to get your money back for the car let alone anything else. Can you ask them if they have a loan car - it seems unlikely but at least you've then tried to minimise the costs associated with it so will be harder to dispute. You might need to hire a car assuming you'll not get it back and anything you recover is a bonus. But it all really depends what you find out about the company.

Much of what they've said here is nonsense. The vehicle was never advertised as 'sold as seen'—not that such a phrase holds any real legal weight. My boss is frustrated because I can't get to work, I’m struggling to get to the shops, and my kids need reliable transport to attend their clubs and activities. Nightmare. 

Did you get a receipt? If so what does that say? You're right it's nonsense and they can't get out of their legal obligations by claiming that but if they are doing so then it might mean they have previous form. If you want to post the name here then we can check out the company and look what the accounts say but if they've only been going 2 years then they don't have a lot to lose by shutting down unfortunately. I suspect they knew the car was faulty and just wanted to shift it to an unsuspecting buyer I'm afraid. I can't see any reason to not publish their name, at least it will be a warning to others if they want to find out their trading tactics.

But the quote you've had for £1500 sounds very high, clutch hydraulics could cover a few things but at a non main dealer you should be able to get a clutch replaced for around half that depending on what the fault is. What is the car by the way?

I’s a Renault Scenic with 88,000 miles on the clock.I haven’t mentioned the company name yet because I don’t want to encourage a forum pile-on or risk affecting the outcome if this does end up going to court. I’ll post their website if they really push me, or once the issue is resolved. There is a receipt—it’s fairly standard and mentions things like the tyres, glass, and bodywork (I think, the superficial items). The AA technician suspected it was the slave cylinder, or possibly the master cylinder?

sheslookinhot

Bowties said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Bowties said:

Timeline of events:

• 16 December – Contacted XXX Cars, test drove the vehicle, carried out a visual inspection, and left a £200 deposit.
• 18 December – Completed the purchase of the vehicle from XXX Cars Ltd for £2,400 (including deposit).
• 
  

How were the two payments made?
Was any of the value on credit card?

Bowties said:

As you are aware, the vehicle was sold to you on an “as seen” basis, and the terms of the sale were agreed upon at the time of purchase. Additionally, the car was sold in good working condition and at a reduced price, reflecting this agreement.

XXX Cars Ltd

 

XXX Cars is a Ltd Company, so if they lose a court case they might just vanish.
How long have XXX Cars been trading at this location?
What history does Companies House show for the Ltd Co and the Directors?


While I fully agree with others that the Dealer cannot hide behind "sold as seen", is there any truth in the statement made by the Dealer?
Was the price lower than market price for the type, age, mileage, condition of the car?  
Was there any indication of faults with the car - discussion etc.?

While a car must be roadworthy, as described, fit for purpose, satisfactory quality, I believe that a Dealer can offer a car for sale "bargain price too good to be true with a clutch fault".

XXX Cars is a Ltd Company, so if they lose a court case they might just vanish.
How long have XXX Cars been trading at this location?
What history does Companies House show for the Ltd Co and the Directors?

- I'll find this out and report back

While I fully agree with others that the Dealer cannot hide behind "sold as seen", is there any truth in the statement made by the Dealer?
Was the price lower than market price for the type, age, mileage, condition of the car?  
Was there any indication of faults with the car - discussion etc.?

- No discussion whatsever. He made no mention of any fault. The value of the car was 'average' for its age and mileage (according to auto trader).

While a car must be roadworthy, as described, fit for purpose, satisfactory quality, I believe that a Dealer can offer a car for sale "bargain price too good to be true with a clutch fault".

- Absolutely agree, and had he made me aware of the issue I wouldn’t have bought it. I have neither the time or the money to deal with any faults. There was no mention on the advert or when i discussed the purchase of the vehicle. 

Buying an old car for £2,400 would certainly come with significant risk of using time and spending money.  Especially a French car.

jimjames

Bowties said:

jimjames said:

Bowties said:

jimjames said:

Bowties said:

Ectophile said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

Leave the car and all the paperwork with them, and tell them that if you don't have a full refund in the next day or two, you will be issuing a court claim.

How much was the car? If it was <£10k, it's a small claim and very straightforward.

Before doing that, check how solvent the company is.  Otherwise, you risk having no car and no money.  It's all too common for backstreet car companies to close down the moment they lose a court case.

If I hire a small vehicle is there any chance I can claim the money back from the dealer if it does go all the way?

From their response so far I think you'll be struggling to get your money back for the car let alone anything else. Can you ask them if they have a loan car - it seems unlikely but at least you've then tried to minimise the costs associated with it so will be harder to dispute. You might need to hire a car assuming you'll not get it back and anything you recover is a bonus. But it all really depends what you find out about the company.

Much of what they've said here is nonsense. The vehicle was never advertised as 'sold as seen'—not that such a phrase holds any real legal weight. My boss is frustrated because I can't get to work, I’m struggling to get to the shops, and my kids need reliable transport to attend their clubs and activities. Nightmare. 

Did you get a receipt? If so what does that say? You're right it's nonsense and they can't get out of their legal obligations by claiming that but if they are doing so then it might mean they have previous form. If you want to post the name here then we can check out the company and look what the accounts say but if they've only been going 2 years then they don't have a lot to lose by shutting down unfortunately. I suspect they knew the car was faulty and just wanted to shift it to an unsuspecting buyer I'm afraid. I can't see any reason to not publish their name, at least it will be a warning to others if they want to find out their trading tactics.

But the quote you've had for £1500 sounds very high, clutch hydraulics could cover a few things but at a non main dealer you should be able to get a clutch replaced for around half that depending on what the fault is. What is the car by the way?

The AA technician suspected it was the slave cylinder, or possibly the master cylinder?

I find it hard to believe either of those are £1500 at a garage other than main dealer