Faulty washer/dryer and AO /AEG

annette1958

I bought a washer/dryer on 5th December from AO , I noticed that the rinse was not getting rid of all the soap and seemed to be spinning the soap out not rinsing it enough . I rang AO , and AEG sent an engineer . He concluded that I was using the wrong pods ( these were supplied with machine) , not using the machine correctly and I had a lecture on how to wash in a washing machine !! I am 66 and have done enough washes in my life with various makes/models of machines . So according to him the suds are a 'by product' and not problematic , although clothes come out "crackling with the residue "
I complained to AO stating I was not happy with it and a 10 day long period of 3 way conversations between myself and them trying to resolve this . They asked for a video of machine operating which I sent and then a week passed before a lot of calls to them as they failed to call me back was told they wanted to send another engineer which I have refused .
When I asked AO as the retailer to return the machine and get a refund/replacement they then informed me there was a "retention fee of 30 % " if refunded or 15% if replaced !! There is no mention of this in the terms and conditions other than they would reduce the refund due to use of machine ! No mention of percentages .
I am unsure of how to proceed as paid with my debit card so would have to do a chargeback and hope they don't try to claw back but am I entitled to return under the 30 day rule as not suitable/fit for purpose ? I am left with a machine I am not happy with and at £700 expect a decent wash from it . 

powerful_Rogue

annette1958 said:

I bought a washer/dryer on 5th December from AO , I noticed that the rinse was not getting rid of all the soap and seemed to be spinning the soap out not rinsing it enough . I rang AO , and AEG sent an engineer . He concluded that I was using the wrong pods ( these were supplied with machine) , not using the machine correctly and I had a lecture on how to wash in a washing machine !! I am 66 and have done enough washes in my life with various makes/models of machines . So according to him the suds are a 'by product' and not problematic , although clothes come out "crackling with the residue "
I complained to AO stating I was not happy with it and a 10 day long period of 3 way conversations between myself and them trying to resolve this . They asked for a video of machine operating which I sent and then a week passed before a lot of calls to them as they failed to call me back was told they wanted to send another engineer which I have refused .
When I asked AO as the retailer to return the machine and get a refund/replacement they then informed me there was a "retention fee of 30 % " if refunded or 15% if replaced !! There is no mention of this in the terms and conditions other than they would reduce the refund due to use of machine ! No mention of percentages .
I am unsure of how to proceed as paid with my debit card so would have to do a chargeback and hope they don't try to claw back but am I entitled to return under the 30 day rule as not suitable/fit for purpose ? I am left with a machine I am not happy with and at £700 expect a decent wash from it . 

Get the washing machine inspected yourself and a report written. If this is in your favour, show it to AO, or consider small claims court and let them decide.

Even if they don't contest the chargeback, they can still take you to court to get the money back. A chargeback isn't legally binding.

As for %, the legislation doesn't mention them either, as every product and situation is different.

DullGreyGuy

annette1958 said:

I bought a washer/dryer on 5th December from AO , I noticed that the rinse was not getting rid of all the soap and seemed to be spinning the soap out not rinsing it enough . I rang AO , and AEG sent an engineer . He concluded that I was using the wrong pods ( these were supplied with machine) , not using the machine correctly and I had a lecture on how to wash in a washing machine !! I am 66 and have done enough washes in my life with various makes/models of machines . So according to him the suds are a 'by product' and not problematic , although clothes come out "crackling with the residue "
I complained to AO stating I was not happy with it and a 10 day long period of 3 way conversations between myself and them trying to resolve this . They asked for a video of machine operating which I sent and then a week passed before a lot of calls to them as they failed to call me back was told they wanted to send another engineer which I have refused .
When I asked AO as the retailer to return the machine and get a refund/replacement they then informed me there was a "retention fee of 30 % " if refunded or 15% if replaced !! There is no mention of this in the terms and conditions other than they would reduce the refund due to use of machine ! No mention of percentages .
I am unsure of how to proceed as paid with my debit card so would have to do a chargeback and hope they don't try to claw back but am I entitled to return under the 30 day rule as not suitable/fit for purpose ? I am left with a machine I am not happy with and at £700 expect a decent wash from it . 

So you didnt like him teaching you how to suck eggs but have you actually done what he told you to do and did it make any difference? 

Sounds like you are trying to reject the goods under your short term rights under the CRA given you mention 30 days... as such its up to you to substantiate that the machine is faulty and its not, for example, user error. Clearly the first engineer has marked it up as user error and you've refused a second engineer. If you dont want someone from AEG looking at it you'd need to commission your own person to inspect and write a report. 

They sound like they are considering the return as a change of mind for which they state you can return in 30 days if unused for a full refund or you'll get a partial refund if you want to return it after using it which they say can be up to 50% charge. 

Have you looked through the menus? I know with ours new one its crazy as you have to set the water hardness and a number of other factors that influence the programmes but you can then override them if you want an extra long rinse etc. 

annette1958

DullGreyGuy said:

annette1958 said:

I bought a washer/dryer on 5th December from AO , I noticed that the rinse was not getting rid of all the soap and seemed to be spinning the soap out not rinsing it enough . I rang AO , and AEG sent an engineer . He concluded that I was using the wrong pods ( these were supplied with machine) , not using the machine correctly and I had a lecture on how to wash in a washing machine !! I am 66 and have done enough washes in my life with various makes/models of machines . So according to him the suds are a 'by product' and not problematic , although clothes come out "crackling with the residue "
I complained to AO stating I was not happy with it and a 10 day long period of 3 way conversations between myself and them trying to resolve this . They asked for a video of machine operating which I sent and then a week passed before a lot of calls to them as they failed to call me back was told they wanted to send another engineer which I have refused .
When I asked AO as the retailer to return the machine and get a refund/replacement they then informed me there was a "retention fee of 30 % " if refunded or 15% if replaced !! There is no mention of this in the terms and conditions other than they would reduce the refund due to use of machine ! No mention of percentages .
I am unsure of how to proceed as paid with my debit card so would have to do a chargeback and hope they don't try to claw back but am I entitled to return under the 30 day rule as not suitable/fit for purpose ? I am left with a machine I am not happy with and at £700 expect a decent wash from it . 

So you didnt like him teaching you how to suck eggs but have you actually done what he told you to do and did it make any difference? 

Sounds like you are trying to reject the goods under your short term rights under the CRA given you mention 30 days... as such its up to you to substantiate that the machine is faulty and its not, for example, user error. Clearly the first engineer has marked it up as user error and you've refused a second engineer. If you dont want someone from AEG looking at it you'd need to commission your own person to inspect and write a report. 

They sound like they are considering the return as a change of mind for which they state you can return in 30 days if unused for a full refund or you'll get a partial refund if you want to return it after using it which they say can be up to 50% charge. 

Have you looked through the menus? I know with ours new one its crazy as you have to set the water hardness and a number of other factors that influence the programmes but you can then override them if you want an extra long rinse etc. 

Hi , Yes I have tried various other programmes and have also noted that when in rinse mode the 'time left 'display clock gets stuck on 3 minutes for around 5 mins ! I I have had to use 3 extra rinses to get rid of the soap . 
I am looking into getting an independant report done . 

GDB2222

annette1958 said:

I bought a washer/dryer on 5th December from AO , I noticed that the rinse was not getting rid of all the soap and seemed to be spinning the soap out not rinsing it enough . I rang AO , and AEG sent an engineer . He concluded that I was using the wrong pods ( these were supplied with machine) , not using the machine correctly and I had a lecture on how to wash in a washing machine !! I am 66 and have done enough washes in my life with various makes/models of machines . So according to him the suds are a 'by product' and not problematic , although clothes come out "crackling with the residue "
I complained to AO stating I was not happy with it and a 10 day long period of 3 way conversations between myself and them trying to resolve this . They asked for a video of machine operating which I sent and then a week passed before a lot of calls to them as they failed to call me back was told they wanted to send another engineer which I have refused .
When I asked AO as the retailer to return the machine and get a refund/replacement they then informed me there was a "retention fee of 30 % " if refunded or 15% if replaced !! There is no mention of this in the terms and conditions other than they would reduce the refund due to use of machine ! No mention of percentages .
I am unsure of how to proceed as paid with my debit card so would have to do a chargeback and hope they don't try to claw back but am I entitled to return under the 30 day rule as not suitable/fit for purpose ? I am left with a machine I am not happy with and at £700 expect a decent wash from it . 

"they wanted to send another engineer which I have refused ."

That's where your problem lies. Just accept the second engineer visit. 

Otherwise, to contest this in court, you'll need an independent engineer's report, which will cost you several hundred pounds. An independent engineer is just that - independent. He may side with AEG. 

Without an independent report, the chances are that you'll lose in court, I'm afraid. So, the obvious solution is to give AEG a second chance to look the machine over. The second engineer may find a fault with it, or he may be better able to explain what you are doing wrong (if that's the case).

annette1958

GDB2222 said:

annette1958 said:

I bought a washer/dryer on 5th December from AO , I noticed that the rinse was not getting rid of all the soap and seemed to be spinning the soap out not rinsing it enough . I rang AO , and AEG sent an engineer . He concluded that I was using the wrong pods ( these were supplied with machine) , not using the machine correctly and I had a lecture on how to wash in a washing machine !! I am 66 and have done enough washes in my life with various makes/models of machines . So according to him the suds are a 'by product' and not problematic , although clothes come out "crackling with the residue "
I complained to AO stating I was not happy with it and a 10 day long period of 3 way conversations between myself and them trying to resolve this . They asked for a video of machine operating which I sent and then a week passed before a lot of calls to them as they failed to call me back was told they wanted to send another engineer which I have refused .
When I asked AO as the retailer to return the machine and get a refund/replacement they then informed me there was a "retention fee of 30 % " if refunded or 15% if replaced !! There is no mention of this in the terms and conditions other than they would reduce the refund due to use of machine ! No mention of percentages .
I am unsure of how to proceed as paid with my debit card so would have to do a chargeback and hope they don't try to claw back but am I entitled to return under the 30 day rule as not suitable/fit for purpose ? I am left with a machine I am not happy with and at £700 expect a decent wash from it . 

"they wanted to send another engineer which I have refused ."

That's where your problem lies. Just accept the second engineer visit. 

Otherwise, to contest this in court, you'll need an independent engineer's report, which will cost you several hundred pounds. An independent engineer is just that - independent. He may side with AEG. 

I refused the second engineer as if the first one did not even run the machine and yet stated no fault found and the 30 day cooling off period is approaching I did not know how I would stand if this dispute went over the time limit . To date I have been on conference calls with AEG and AO everyday for over a week and I feel they are fobbing me off.

born_again

For a chargeback, you would need to send machine back, which is going to cost you. Which you can not claim as part of the chargeback.

DullGreyGuy

annette1958 said:

GDB2222 said:

annette1958 said:

I bought a washer/dryer on 5th December from AO , I noticed that the rinse was not getting rid of all the soap and seemed to be spinning the soap out not rinsing it enough . I rang AO , and AEG sent an engineer . He concluded that I was using the wrong pods ( these were supplied with machine) , not using the machine correctly and I had a lecture on how to wash in a washing machine !! I am 66 and have done enough washes in my life with various makes/models of machines . So according to him the suds are a 'by product' and not problematic , although clothes come out "crackling with the residue "
I complained to AO stating I was not happy with it and a 10 day long period of 3 way conversations between myself and them trying to resolve this . They asked for a video of machine operating which I sent and then a week passed before a lot of calls to them as they failed to call me back was told they wanted to send another engineer which I have refused .
When I asked AO as the retailer to return the machine and get a refund/replacement they then informed me there was a "retention fee of 30 % " if refunded or 15% if replaced !! There is no mention of this in the terms and conditions other than they would reduce the refund due to use of machine ! No mention of percentages .
I am unsure of how to proceed as paid with my debit card so would have to do a chargeback and hope they don't try to claw back but am I entitled to return under the 30 day rule as not suitable/fit for purpose ? I am left with a machine I am not happy with and at £700 expect a decent wash from it . 

"they wanted to send another engineer which I have refused ."

That's where your problem lies. Just accept the second engineer visit. 

Otherwise, to contest this in court, you'll need an independent engineer's report, which will cost you several hundred pounds. An independent engineer is just that - independent. He may side with AEG. 

I refused the second engineer as if the first one did not even run the machine and yet stated no fault found and the 30 day cooling off period is approaching I did not know how I would stand if this dispute went over the time limit . To date I have been on conference calls with AEG and AO everyday for over a week and I feel they are fobbing me off.

The clock is effectively stopped when you raise the issue which gives time for reports, arranging collection etc etc though you should be clear with them that you are exercising your short term right to reject under the Consumer Rights Act to ensure there is no confusion. 

ripplyuk

DullGreyGuy said:

annette1958 said:

I bought a washer/dryer on 5th December from AO , I noticed that the rinse was not getting rid of all the soap and seemed to be spinning the soap out not rinsing it enough . I rang AO , and AEG sent an engineer . He concluded that I was using the wrong pods ( these were supplied with machine) , not using the machine correctly and I had a lecture on how to wash in a washing machine !! I am 66 and have done enough washes in my life with various makes/models of machines . So according to him the suds are a 'by product' and not problematic , although clothes come out "crackling with the residue "
I complained to AO stating I was not happy with it and a 10 day long period of 3 way conversations between myself and them trying to resolve this . They asked for a video of machine operating which I sent and then a week passed before a lot of calls to them as they failed to call me back was told they wanted to send another engineer which I have refused .
When I asked AO as the retailer to return the machine and get a refund/replacement they then informed me there was a "retention fee of 30 % " if refunded or 15% if replaced !! There is no mention of this in the terms and conditions other than they would reduce the refund due to use of machine ! No mention of percentages .
I am unsure of how to proceed as paid with my debit card so would have to do a chargeback and hope they don't try to claw back but am I entitled to return under the 30 day rule as not suitable/fit for purpose ? I am left with a machine I am not happy with and at £700 expect a decent wash from it . 

So you didnt like him teaching you how to suck eggs but have you actually done what he told you to do and did it make any difference? 

Sounds like you are trying to reject the goods under your short term rights under the CRA given you mention 30 days... as such its up to you to substantiate that the machine is faulty and its not, for example, user error. Clearly the first engineer has marked it up as user error and you've refused a second engineer. If you dont want someone from AEG looking at it you'd need to commission your own person to inspect and write a report. 

They sound like they are considering the return as a change of mind for which they state you can return in 30 days if unused for a full refund or you'll get a partial refund if you want to return it after using it which they say can be up to 50% charge. 

Have you looked through the menus? I know with ours new one its crazy as you have to set the water hardness and a number of other factors that influence the programmes but you can then override them if you want an extra long rinse etc. 

I thought a fault in the first 30 days was always assumed to be present at manufacture and therefore the consumer is entitled to a refund. Is this not the case? 

DullGreyGuy

ripplyuk said:

DullGreyGuy said:

annette1958 said:

I bought a washer/dryer on 5th December from AO , I noticed that the rinse was not getting rid of all the soap and seemed to be spinning the soap out not rinsing it enough . I rang AO , and AEG sent an engineer . He concluded that I was using the wrong pods ( these were supplied with machine) , not using the machine correctly and I had a lecture on how to wash in a washing machine !! I am 66 and have done enough washes in my life with various makes/models of machines . So according to him the suds are a 'by product' and not problematic , although clothes come out "crackling with the residue "
I complained to AO stating I was not happy with it and a 10 day long period of 3 way conversations between myself and them trying to resolve this . They asked for a video of machine operating which I sent and then a week passed before a lot of calls to them as they failed to call me back was told they wanted to send another engineer which I have refused .
When I asked AO as the retailer to return the machine and get a refund/replacement they then informed me there was a "retention fee of 30 % " if refunded or 15% if replaced !! There is no mention of this in the terms and conditions other than they would reduce the refund due to use of machine ! No mention of percentages .
I am unsure of how to proceed as paid with my debit card so would have to do a chargeback and hope they don't try to claw back but am I entitled to return under the 30 day rule as not suitable/fit for purpose ? I am left with a machine I am not happy with and at £700 expect a decent wash from it . 

So you didnt like him teaching you how to suck eggs but have you actually done what he told you to do and did it make any difference? 

Sounds like you are trying to reject the goods under your short term rights under the CRA given you mention 30 days... as such its up to you to substantiate that the machine is faulty and its not, for example, user error. Clearly the first engineer has marked it up as user error and you've refused a second engineer. If you dont want someone from AEG looking at it you'd need to commission your own person to inspect and write a report. 

They sound like they are considering the return as a change of mind for which they state you can return in 30 days if unused for a full refund or you'll get a partial refund if you want to return it after using it which they say can be up to 50% charge. 

Have you looked through the menus? I know with ours new one its crazy as you have to set the water hardness and a number of other factors that influence the programmes but you can then override them if you want an extra long rinse etc. 

I thought a fault in the first 30 days was always assumed to be present at manufacture and therefore the consumer is entitled to a refund. Is this not the case? 

If you say its faulty and you let the retailer decide if to repair, refund, replace then in the first 6 months its assumed to be faulty unless the retailer can prove otherwise... but in this case the retailer has an engineers report and it states user error. 

The Short Term Right To Reject is a sub-separate section of the statute and doesn't explicitly state in that sub-section that it's assumed to be faulty. There is some difference of opinion on if that means for the first 30 days if you want to reject it you must prove its faulty or if the other sub-sections clause somehow cross applies... based on my post you can see which camp I'm in. 

GDB2222

annette1958 said:

GDB2222 said:

annette1958 said:

I bought a washer/dryer on 5th December from AO , I noticed that the rinse was not getting rid of all the soap and seemed to be spinning the soap out not rinsing it enough . I rang AO , and AEG sent an engineer . He concluded that I was using the wrong pods ( these were supplied with machine) , not using the machine correctly and I had a lecture on how to wash in a washing machine !! I am 66 and have done enough washes in my life with various makes/models of machines . So according to him the suds are a 'by product' and not problematic , although clothes come out "crackling with the residue "
I complained to AO stating I was not happy with it and a 10 day long period of 3 way conversations between myself and them trying to resolve this . They asked for a video of machine operating which I sent and then a week passed before a lot of calls to them as they failed to call me back was told they wanted to send another engineer which I have refused .
When I asked AO as the retailer to return the machine and get a refund/replacement they then informed me there was a "retention fee of 30 % " if refunded or 15% if replaced !! There is no mention of this in the terms and conditions other than they would reduce the refund due to use of machine ! No mention of percentages .
I am unsure of how to proceed as paid with my debit card so would have to do a chargeback and hope they don't try to claw back but am I entitled to return under the 30 day rule as not suitable/fit for purpose ? I am left with a machine I am not happy with and at £700 expect a decent wash from it . 

"they wanted to send another engineer which I have refused ."

That's where your problem lies. Just accept the second engineer visit. 

Otherwise, to contest this in court, you'll need an independent engineer's report, which will cost you several hundred pounds. An independent engineer is just that - independent. He may side with AEG. 

I refused the second engineer as if the first one did not even run the machine and yet stated no fault found and the 30 day cooling off period is approaching I did not know how I would stand if this dispute went over the time limit . To date I have been on conference calls with AEG and AO everyday for over a week and I feel they are fobbing me off.

I'm sure you are hopping mad. But, look at this from AO's point of view for a moment.  AEG sent an engineer. He said it's operator error. Of course, he may be wrong, but AO don't know that.

I'd let another engineer look at it. Hopefully, he'll investigate the machine a good deal more thoroughly than the previous one did. In any case, now would be a great time to reread the instruction book a couple of times, so that you have a reasoned answer if the engineer tells you it's your fault. 

The alternative is to stick this machine in storage, buy a new machine, hire an independent engineer to report, and issue legal proceedings. That seems like a sledgehammer to crack a nut, given that AEG are happy to send a second engineer round. The only thing I'd insist on is that it's a different engineer!