reimburse a training fee

luckbox

Flatfacedcat said:

Yes, this was clear to me; thanks for highlighting. My perspective is this: when a company wants to get money back from their employees for the training they are expecting their employees to complete is the same as expecting their employees to pay for such training from the very beginning. Here is about the clause the company included in their contract and about what does the presence of such clause says about the company itself.

I don't think the company wants the money back as much as doesn't want to fork out 5k for it, to then see the employee leave a few months later and therefore a poor investment. The question is regarding 2 years being a bit too long to try and enforce, which I agree seems to long. The clause is fairly common and I would say is reasonable (albeit not for 2 years) if you get training straight after joining. 

I would be less happy if I was in the role for a few years and still had a 2 year enforcement for training as I'd see that as more of a time served situation.

kokolino23

lincroft1710 said:

kokolino23 said:

LightFlare said:

I would say that a lot depends on the type of course and how useful it is, how essential it is and whether it’s potentially transferable to other employers or not 

Their approach and any reasonableness associated with them attempting to recover any costs would depend on the answer

The cost is £5k for a module. I don't know how useful could be because it's unclear how much work will be on that product. I don't think it's much tbh because the company deals with a few products and this course is for something that they do quite rarely. You need the training if you work on that product on daily basis not every now and then.

Unless you would be on a salary of £100K or more, that's quite a lot to pay back

Nowhere near that!

LightFlare

I don’t think 2 years is unreasonable for a 5k course.

A lot depends on whether the course is:
a) essential for the job
b) transferable to another employer

If b) is true, then I fully understand their payback clause

elsien

kokolino23 said:

LightFlare said:

I would say that a lot depends on the type of course and how useful it is, how essential it is and whether it’s potentially transferable to other employers or not 

Their approach and any reasonableness associated with them attempting to recover any costs would depend on the answer

The cost is £5k for a module. I don't know how useful could be because it's unclear how much work will be on that product. I don't think it's much tbh because the company deals with a few products and this course is for something that they do quite rarely. You need the training if you work on that product on daily basis not every now and then.

So they do they even want you to undertake the training, if you are likely to be using it, or is that a presumption on your part?

Although I don’t work in the corporate world, in reply to flatface, it is quite common for my contract to have a clause about repaying training although it is usually on a pro -rata basis

saajan_12

Also have to think of the alternative.. if they were regularly spending large amounts on training people for long lasting qualfications only for them to leave shortly thereafter, it would be very costly and unfair for the company.

To mitigate this, they might only offer to people already qualified (which is what mine does unless you come in as an entry level) or put in a minimum term contract where you have to stay for a certain amount of time. That would only create more stress on an employee who wanted to leave or remove opportunities entirely. 

Savvy_Sue

If the training is transferable, you may be able to ask a new employer to pay what you owe. I wouldn’t know if it was common, but I do know someone training as an accountant who got a new employer to do this, as they were benefiting from their professional qualifications. 

DullGreyGuy

Flatfacedcat said:

Maybe in other countries is different. I live within the European Union and here I never heard of a company expecting its employees to pay money to the company they work for the training courses. What I heard often instead, and what is common here, is that companies pay all the costs if they want their employees to attend any training course; furthermore, companies are paying also accommodation and transport if the training course is in another city or country. And what is also pretty common here in Europe is the awareness among people that companies who demand money from their employees are usually some sort of scam and fraud - so the majority of people in Europe know this and stay away from such fake "job" advertisements.

The person I work with at my current client has just had them pay £65,000 for an Executive MBA (a bargain compared to the £130,000 LBA normally charge). Are you really saying that in all companies in the EU you could have them pay that for you and resign on the day you get the certificate with no consequence @flatfacedcat? A quick Google shows its not the case in Germany and that clauses to recover such costs do exist and can be enforceable (however the article warned about hardship and some companies not getting full costs back)

Flatfacedcat

DullGreyGuy said:

Are you really saying that in all companies in the EU you could have them pay that for you and resign on the day you get the certificate with no consequence @flatfacedcat?

What I said is that out of all the corporations I worked so far only in one of them there was this type of statement in their employment contract and that in all the others the training courses were paid by the company, not by us employees, and that some people resigned during the training before it was completed while a few others resigned during the first week after the training was over. For these who resigned in the first week after the training was over, I am unaware if there have been any consequences for them for this behavior, however I guess there wasn't any consequence because they have been employed with the same contract I was and in my contract there was no statement about any consequence if one decided to resign immediately after the training. This is what I said.

Grumpy_chap

DullGreyGuy said:

The person I work with at my current client has just had them pay £65,000 for an Executive MBA (a bargain compared to the £130,000 LBA normally charge). Are you really saying that in all companies in the EU you could have them pay that for you and resign on the day you get the certificate with no consequence 

I actually know a company where they are unable to fill their exec-MBA opportunities.  The employer has to pay the training levy and has structured the exec-MBA so that it fits within the criteria for "Apprenticeship" which allows the company to claim funding back from the training levy.  This means there are various rules, one of which is that a claw back is not permitted.