Will this cause Transitional Protection to end?

the_pink_panther_2

I currently get TP, having moved to UC in April 2024 as a single claimant.  At that time the AET for me was £744.  My first take home pay though was over the current AET of £892.  My job is not a min wage job, so when the AET again raises in April 2025, my expected take home pay will be slightly below the new AET, due to the moving AET.  My take home earnings are still above £892 but a little lower they were in the first AP.   I've tried searching everywhere I can think of online, but can't work out if I stand to lose my TP at month 3 of the new AET taking place, but my circumstances haven't changed significantly.  My earnings vary a little month by month, not significantly.  To determine whether ending TP, would they use:

a) AET as it stood at date of claim to determine whether I lose my TP?  If this is the case I keep TP.

b) The new AET in April 2025, in that case, I stand to lose TP.

 c) As DWP state that the intention is to remove TP due to significant change in circumstances, or lower earnings, well my earnings wouldn't be significantly lower, more that the AET changed upwards (although, my earnings in my very first AP were higher than normal and I did have take home above the AET which will kick in in April 2025,  so this could be a factor too, because comparing my AP1 to the new AET for April 2025, I was still above that, if they compare this too, so on that count I could stand to lose TP for that justification). 

Is there any legislation, or precedent which clarifies what will happen in this situation, please? 

Is anyone able to signpost me please to where I could get a definitive answer to this?

If ending TP is based on take home pay, I'd be below new AET in April, but if it's before NI is deducted, and possibly tax, I may be a little above the new AET threshold.  I literally can't find conclusive answers though as to whether I'd lose TP or not. 

peteuk

When you say you job is not minimum wage, is that per hour or because of hours worked eg I work 20 hrs so if you take minimum wage as Y X 37?

If as you say you drop below AET you’ll be expected to prove your looking for more work or increase your earnings.

TP would tapper off, and I don’t see this as a change in circumstances.  Your TP will reduce and finish once your UC is the same or higher than your previous benefit.  Unless the TP is on savings over £16K at which point it will be a years TP and if you still have over £16k in capital then your claim will cease.

That’s my take on it, but Im sure someone more knowledgable will correct me if I’m wrong.

michaels

the_pink_panther_2 said:

I currently get TP, having moved to UC in April 2024 as a single claimant.  At that time the AET for me was £744.  My first take home pay though was over the current AET of £892.  My job is not a min wage job, so when the AET again raises in April 2025, my expected take home pay will be slightly below the new AET, due to the moving AET.  My take home earnings are still above £892 but a little lower they were in the first AP.   I've tried searching everywhere I can think of online, but can't work out if I stand to lose my TP at month 3 of the new AET taking place, but my circumstances haven't changed significantly.  My earnings vary a little month by month, not significantly.  To determine whether ending TP, would they use:

a) AET as it stood at date of claim to determine whether I lose my TP?  If this is the case I keep TP.

b) The new AET in April 2025, in that case, I stand to lose TP.

 c) As DWP state that the intention is to remove TP due to significant change in circumstances, or lower earnings, well my earnings wouldn't be significantly lower, more that the AET changed upwards (although, my earnings in my very first AP were higher than normal and I did have take home above the AET which will kick in in April 2025,  so this could be a factor too, because comparing my AP1 to the new AET for April 2025, I was still above that, if they compare this too, so on that count I could stand to lose TP for that justification). 

Is there any legislation, or precedent which clarifies what will happen in this situation, please? 

Is anyone able to signpost me please to where I could get a definitive answer to this?

If ending TP is based on take home pay, I'd be below new AET in April, but if it's before NI is deducted, and possibly tax, I may be a little above the new AET threshold.  I literally can't find conclusive answers though as to whether I'd lose TP or not. 

Your comment on the AET thread suggests that at least someone has foreseen the issue but the 'needs thinking about' does not sound that hopeful that anything has actually been done....

the_pink_panther_2

Thank you.  Do you know if CAB may be in a position to give a definite answer? I have a hunch that it's probably just thing by the new AET but I really have no clue and would like to get clarification. 

NedS

If your earnings were over the AET in your first AP, and then at any point drop under the AET for 3 consecutive APs, then transitional protection will end.

The AET amount is the amount in any given AP, so it is the AET as it is now that is relevant, not the AET figure that may have applied as the start of your claim. If the AET increases, so must your earnings to retain entitlement to transitional protection - you must continue to earn over the AET (i.e, option (b) in your first post above)

rosewalk

You may find the following helpful https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/63ee0e9e8fa8f5613576a3f0/adm-memo-02-23-changes-to-administrative-earnings-threshold-levels-2023.pdf

the_pink_panther_2

rosewalk said:

You may find the following helpful https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/63ee0e9e8fa8f5613576a3f0/adm-memo-02-23-changes-to-administrative-earnings-threshold-levels-2023.pdf

That's amazing, thank you.  Unless I misunderstand that, I lose TP if my earnings drop below £744, as that was single person"s AET on the first day of my claim.  I would be expected to look for more work in line with whatever the AET is in April but TP wouldn't be at risk unless my earnings drop below £744

Thank you so much for posting that link.  Much appreciated @rosewalk

the_pink_panther_2

Is the 'first day of the UC award' (referred to in the above link) the day a claimant makes a claim for UC, or is it the date on which their first UC award is calculate (ie, a month later)? I'm assuming it's the date of claim but I'm not sure.  On the day I claimed UC, AET was £744, but the first date I had an award calculated, the  AET had already increased to £892 so it makes some difference as to whihc date is used. 

kaMelo

the_pink_panther_2 said:

Is the 'first day of the UC award' (referred to in the above link) the day a claimant makes a claim for UC, or is it the date on which their first UC award is calculate (ie, a month later)? I'm assuming it's the date of claim but I'm not sure.  On the day I claimed UC, AET was £744, but the first date I had an award calculated, the  AET had already increased to £892 so it makes some difference as to whihc date is used. 

Reading the regulations, 
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/1230/regulation/56

56 (2)(a)in the case of a single claimant—

(i)it is the assessment period after the third consecutive assessment period in which the claimant’s earned income is less than the amount specified in regulation 99(6)(a) of the Universal Credit Regulations (“the single administrative threshold”), and

(ii)in the first assessment period of the award, the claimant’s earned income was equal to or more than that threshold;

(3) For the purposes of paragraph (2)—

(a)references to the amount specified in regulation 99(6)(a) and 99(6)(b) respectively of the Universal Credit Regulations are to the amount that was applicable on the first day of the award

Generally speaking, everything relating to to a UC award is calculated at the end of an assessment period, until that calculation has taken place there is no UC award. If you read 56 (2) (i) and (ii) together they always mention assessment periods. (i) refers to three consecutive assessment periods in which earnings were below the AET and (ii) refers to earnings in the first assessment period being above the AET. 

I would therefore read  "on the first day of your UC award" as meaning the end of the first assessment period. If it were to mean the AET on the first day of your claim, 56 (3) would refer to 'on the first day of your claim' rather than 'the first day of your award.

But this is just my reading of it.

 

poppy12345

I agree with KaMelo the AET that counts will be what it was on the last day of your assessment period in that first month you claimed. 

the_pink_panther_2

@kaMelo @poppy12345 thanks both for your input.  I wish things were clearer.  I completely agree with your interpretation of it @kamelo, I was unsure if perhaps there is an exact definition of 'first day of universal credit award'. I've found this, but I don't know to what extent the is 100% accurate or if it's just a misinterpretation :  

https://www.uceplus.co.uk/managed-migration/transitional-protection#:~:text=All forms of transitional protection end if:,a single claim for UC

Basically, it's the point just above the table of AETs on start date of claim, which also make it look like it goes by claim date, but I'm so out of my depth with the terminology I'm struggling to interpret everything. I certainly am not confident.  I suspect that whoever posted this guide also may have just assumed that first day of UC award was date of claim, rather than having a definitive on it.

• If you are earning above the Administrative Earnings Threshold (AET) and have a sustained drop in earnings to below AET for three consecutive months. The AET relevant to you, is what the AET amount was when your claim for UC started - read more on this below.

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