DB quote query

xylophone

Yes got state pension quote £12664

Which means that at inception of NSP (6/4/16), you were already in excess of a full NSP which would not be unexpected in your circumstances (probably over thirty years NI and apparently never contracted out.

Ask the administrator for a copy of the scheme guide (unless you have a  former colleagues who has one)?

Incidentally, are you sure that scheme NRA is 65?

And given the figure at DO, I am wondering if it is the middle quote that is closer to the correct amount.

RoysV

Yes definitely 65.
The pension is made up of 2 different pensions. One was 1998_2006 which was £3550 at date of leaving the other was 94_98 which was the contracted out one which was transferred into the 98_06 and was valued at £2936 at age 65.
Don't want to sound dense but what is DO?

DRS1

RoysV said:

Yes definitely 65.
The pension is made up of 2 different pensions. One was 1998_2006 which was £3550 at date of leaving the other was 94_98 which was the contracted out one which was transferred into the 98_06 and was valued at £2936 at age 65.
Don't want to sound dense but what is DO?

I could have sworn you said there was no GMP and so the scheme was not contracted out.  Was it contracted out on a money purchase basis (unlikely)?
Where did the GMP go - if there was one?

xylophone

but what is DO?

Sorry, missed off the L.

DOL short for Date of Leaving.

One was 1998_2006 which was £3550 at date of leaving the other was 94_98 which was the contracted out one which was transferred into the 98_06 and was valued at £2936 at age 65.

But didn't you say

The pre 97 pension was not a contracted out scheme, 

Is the case that you left the employer offering the contracted out scheme  before taking employment with the firm offering the contracted in Defined Benefit Scheme?

Or was there only one employer but the scheme changed from contracting out to contracting in?

See here

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/transfer-your-scheme-members-contracted-out-pension-rights

RoysV

DRS1 said:

RoysV said:

Yes definitely 65.
The pension is made up of 2 different pensions. One was 1998_2006 which was £3550 at date of leaving the other was 94_98 which was the contracted out one which was transferred into the 98_06 and was valued at £2936 at age 65.
Don't want to sound dense but what is DO?

I could have sworn you said there was no GMP and so the scheme was not contracted out.  Was it contracted out on a money purchase basis (unlikely)?
Where did the GMP go - if there was one?

Yes sorry to you and @xylophone I mistyped. The 94-98 was NOT contracted out.

I worked for a company 94-98 and was in a DB scheme that was not contracted out
I left that company and started working for a different company from 98-06 and was in a DB scheme that was contracted out. In about 99 I transferred the 94-98 pension into the 98-06 one

xylophone

The GMP system for contracted out schemes ended 5/4/97( replaced by the Reference Scheme Test) so no GMP in the COSR Scheme

you joined in 1998.  You have S9(2B) rights (see below).

Presumably your transfer in of the pension accrued in your earlier employment bought COSR scheme benefits - do you know how these were calculated?

At all events, when you left in 2006 it was with a deferred COSR Scheme pension.

You said that your statement of deferred benefits on leaving (2006) showed a scheme pension of  £6486 per annum.

The Reference Scheme Test conferred what were known as S9 (2B) rights.

See  https://techzone.abrdn.com/public/pensions/Tech-guide-section-92b-rights

I think that you should check the Scheme Rules for pension increase in deferment/ early retirement.

With regard to the state pension, although there would have been a deduction for contracting out when your starting amount was

calculated in 2016, your Additional State Pension from years of contracting in was high enough to give you a starting amount in excess

of a full NSP which gives you a "protected payment".

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/your-new-state-pension-explained/your-state-pension-explained

RoysV

Thanks for taking the time to give such comprehensive replies @xylophone I've contacted the company. I'll see what they say and post back any updates. Thanks again 

SarahB16

@RoysV You may find what happened to me helpful to you and you may wish to enquire how often you can request a forecast and also ask what factors (apart from your leaving salary) affect your pension.  In my case it is a revaluation factor and an actuarial reduction and this is very likely to be the case for you.  

On an annual basis I request a pension forecast for a deferred DB scheme that I am a member of. I also very recently (December 2024) had some strange fluctuations with my forecasts (I joined the scheme in 2003 so no 'pre 97 pension', etc) and I too queried the figures I had been provided with. The forecast I received only a few weeks ago was virtually the same as the one I received in December 2023 despite the recent forecast I requested being for one year later (so nearer to the normal retirement age for this pension).  

From the helpful telephone conversations I had with three different people I was informed my forecast includes a revaluation rate (I think this is based on future inflation assumptions but I could be wrong) and also an actuarial reduction.  

I have, to date, only requested a forecast once a year but was informed I am entitled to request two forecasts a year so now I intend to do that every 6 months.    

When I request my forecast I am also going to ask them what the revaluation rate is that has been used and also what the actuarial reduction is. 

I don't wish to over-complicate my own scenario so will just refer to one tranche of my pension.  What I was extremely surprised to hear was the actuarial reduction applied in December 2023 was 10.8% and in December 2024 it was 12% despite the forecast being for one year later, i.e. a greater actuarial reduction had been applied despite intending to take the pension one year later.  This didn't seem correct to me as I was expecting as my pension forecast date/age neared my normal retirement date/age the actuarial reduction would decrease but they said actuarial reductions/factors can change hence why I will now ensure I request details of the actuarial reduction and the revaluation factor that has been applied too and not just the forecast pension amount.    

bjorn_toby_wilde

SarahB16 said:

I don't wish to over-complicate my own scenario so will just refer to one tranche of my pension.  What I was extremely surprised to hear was the actuarial reduction applied in December 2023 was 10.8% and in December 2024 it was 12% despite the forecast being for one year later, i.e. a greater actuarial reduction had been applied despite intending to take the pension one year later.  This didn't seem correct to me as I was expecting as my pension forecast date/age neared my normal retirement date/age the actuarial reduction would decrease but they said actuarial reductions/factors can change hence why I will now ensure I request details of the actuarial reduction and the revaluation factor that has been applied too and not just the forecast pension amount.    

@SarahB16 You’re absolutely right to ask the administrators for the table of actuarial reductions that had been applied.

When I received the unexpectedly low forecast that I mentioned in my post above Capita, the administrators, said in the letter something like “we note that this forecast is lower than previous forecasts you have received however this is due to changes in actuarial reductions applied”.  When I asked what changes and why I and other deferred pensioners hadn’t been informed of them, I received an apology and a revised forecast which was back in line with what I expected.

Administrators do make mistakes and, in my case they explained away their mistake by referring to actuarial changes that hadn’t actually happened.  If you have the table that they should be using it helps to check their calculation.

Pat38493

bjorn_toby_wilde said:

SarahB16 said:

I don't wish to over-complicate my own scenario so will just refer to one tranche of my pension.  What I was extremely surprised to hear was the actuarial reduction applied in December 2023 was 10.8% and in December 2024 it was 12% despite the forecast being for one year later, i.e. a greater actuarial reduction had been applied despite intending to take the pension one year later.  This didn't seem correct to me as I was expecting as my pension forecast date/age neared my normal retirement date/age the actuarial reduction would decrease but they said actuarial reductions/factors can change hence why I will now ensure I request details of the actuarial reduction and the revaluation factor that has been applied too and not just the forecast pension amount.    

@SarahB16 You’re absolutely right to ask the administrators for the table of actuarial reductions that had been applied.

When I received the unexpectedly low forecast that I mentioned in my post above Capita, the administrators, said in the letter something like “we note that this forecast is lower than previous forecasts you have received however this is due to changes in actuarial reductions applied”.  When I asked what changes and why I and other deferred pensioners hadn’t been informed of them, I received an apology and a revised forecast which was back in line with what I expected.

Administrators do make mistakes and, in my case they explained away their mistake by referring to actuarial changes that hadn’t actually happened.  If you have the table that they should be using it helps to check their calculation.

I am planning to ask for the full details of actuarial adjustments for my DB.

Depending on the scheme, I think that it’s not just the actuarial reductions for early retirement that you should ask for - you should also ask for the adjustments they have applied for known and unknown periods of inflation in order to revalue the pension before any reductions are applied, and the methodology followed.

If the pension has different tranches with different normal retirement dates, you should ask for all this to be provided for each tranche.

To follow up you could also ask them to explain how they make sure that their number is, at minimum,  compliant with the Occupational Pension Revaluation Order 2024.

They will probably not want to give you this information so you probably have to be pretty insistent or even make a complaint if they won’t tell you.