CEL court claim 2025

buzzUK

Hello,
After numerous letters that I ignored as per the newbies guide being no action till court claim - I have today, received the Letter before action from Civil Enforecement (www.ce-service.co.uk) with a PAP which "requires me to respond to this letter" - 30 days notice.

I have read other posts saying I need to respond to them but only via email such as - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6505146/no-response-to-appeal-civil-enforcement/p2

Do I action like the above link? or do I wait for the official court claim as per the guide?

I have not complained to the landowner - I have requested it to be cancelled informally and there response was they only get to choose 2 a month to cancel - which sounds like BS. Its a car park where you type your registration in when you arrive or before you leave which I use all year round at a club.

I have not officially complained or requested for it to be cancelled with the car park owner, as above I have not appealed. I was the driver of the vehicle, but is my defence that I was not the driver and they cannot prove this?

Thanks in advance for any response

KeithP

Respond to that letter in the same way that you responded to a similar letter in June 2021.

buzzUK

KeithP said:

Respond to that letter in the same way that you responded to a similar letter in June 2021.

Great thank you for responding, I will knock one up over Christmas, hopefully spread some joy to them for their January return

Gr1pr

As for the question,  a good defence for a keeper who was not the driver may work, subject to POFA requirements 

But for a keeper who was driving,  it's no defence,  especially if the Claimant parking company complied with POFA 2012

Coupon-mad

buzzUK said:

KeithP said:

Respond to that letter in the same way that you responded to a similar letter in June 2021.

Great thank you for responding, I will knock one up over Christmas, 

There's already a LBC template in the second post of the NEWBIES thread.

buzzUK

Good afternoon - is the below a reasonable response using the template and additional comments from the Gatwick post linked in the second post of the newbies thread? I have made bold the areas I am editing. Is the Gatwick section not needed on this email?


Your Ref PCN - ************
Proposed Legal Proceedings
Claimant: Civil Enforcement

I refer to your letter of claim.

I confirm that my address for service for the time being - assuming you don't faff about and delay any claim - is as follows, and any older address must be erased from your records:
*********
*********
*********

The alleged debt is disputed and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.

I am sourcing and seeking independent debt advice and as such, I formally request that this matter be put on hold for an additional 30 days, in accordance with the Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims 2017 ('the PAP').

I am the registered keeper of the vehicle. I am not obliged to identify the driver and I decline to do so. As there is no legal presumption that the keeper of a vehicle was its driver on any particular occasion, your client cannot pursue me as driver (see VCS v Edward, 2023).

As you and your client are well aware, there is no keeper liability at *CAR PARK LOCATION, because the car park is not ‘relevant land’ as defined in Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. So your client cannot pursue me as keeper. 

As your client cannot pursue me as driver or keeper, it would be an abuse of the court’s process for your client to issue a claim against me and I will defend any such claim vigorously and seek costs in relation to your client’s unreasonable conduct.

I note that the amount being claimed has increased by a hugely exaggerated amount which the Government called "extorting money from motorists".

I have two questions, and under the PAP I am entitled to specific answers:

1. Am I to understand that the £170 debt represents what you lot dress up as a 'Debt Recovery' fee, and if so, is this nett or inclusive of VAT? If the latter, would you kindly explain why I am being asked to pay the operator’s VAT?

2. With regard to the principal alleged PCN sum: Is this damages, or will it be pleaded as consideration for parking?

Yours faithfully

Coupon-mad

Looks fine but ONLY if you are sure it's not relevant land. I doubt it with CEL, unless it's a Port?

buzzUK

Coupon-mad said:

Looks fine but ONLY if you are sure it's not relevant land. I doubt it with CEL, unless it's a Port?

Thanks for getting back, its definitely not a port, I have just PM'd you asking how I find out about relevant land but thought maybe it best I ask on this thread.

I found the below explanation, it is not a highway or maintained by an official traffic authority, but maybe its best I can check somewhere officially?

In this Schedule “relevant land” means any land (including land above or below ground level) other than—
(a) a highway maintainable at the public expense (within the meaning of section 329(1) of the Highways Act 1980);
(b) a parking place which is provided or controlled by a traffic authority;
(c) any land (not falling within paragraph (a) or (b)) on which the parking of a vehicle is subject to statutory control.

Le_Kirk

One of our regulars, @Umkomaas, regularly posts about how to find landowner.  Click on his name, which takes you to his profile and from there you can click on his threads/comments.  He does have a lot so easier to search the forum where you should find this 12 May 2021 at 8:58AM <<<<<LINK, leading you to this: -

1. Google searches

2. If a retail park, check on any signage which lists the on-site outlets

3. Ask retailers on the site if there is a managing agent

4. Ask retailers on the site to whom do they pay rent

5. Contact the local authority and ask who pays the non-domestic/business rate for the car park (some councils have a spreadsheet on their website)

6. Contact the local Valuation Office and ask if they know. They often have a website which might provide the information 

7. Contact The Land Registry and for around £3 they should be able to provide definitive detail

8. Give us the name of the car park, we may have seen other cases there. 

buzzUK

Le_Kirk said:

One of our regulars, @Umkomaas, regularly posts about how to find landowner.  Click on his name, which takes you to his profile and from there you can click on his threads/comments.  He does have a lot so easier to search the forum where you should find this 12 May 2021 at 8:58AM <<<<<LINK, leading you to this: -

1. Google searches

2. If a retail park, check on any signage which lists the on-site outlets

3. Ask retailers on the site if there is a managing agent

4. Ask retailers on the site to whom do they pay rent

5. Contact the local authority and ask who pays the non-domestic/business rate for the car park (some councils have a spreadsheet on their website)

6. Contact the local Valuation Office and ask if they know. They often have a website which might provide the information 

7. Contact The Land Registry and for around £3 they should be able to provide definitive detail

8. Give us the name of the car park, we may have seen other cases there. 

Thanks for getting back to me - I have had a good look around and found some council forms regarding the site and the parking is on sufficient land, so good to go with the letter I believe?

Coupon-mad

"Sufficient" land? No such phrase and CEL don't work for councils.

No, a response talking about ordinary private land being 'not relevant land' is incorrect.