Double charging / counting on my electricity bill?

pwood45

Thanks again for everyone’s thoughts on this. I’ve gathered some info and tried to organise answers for the questions picked out of responses.

Some new things I have noticed as part of this exercise is 

• My online account appears to have 2 meters with different serials listed but both have same MPAN - Is this normal? (see PDF)

• My IHD reading for “So far this year” is 4231 kWh / £1343 (see video )

• Adding up the totals on my bills this year come to  9248kWh / £2638

Video of IHD https://photos.app.goo.gl/1XP6JPh9uMxHprto6 

PDF of various: https://drive.google.com/file/d/19vgtI0vzzLN1ZovAz-8gTUwRJbYfNOBS/view?usp=sharing 

Smart meter readings + Bill numbers https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/152atmIar1BMwXl5ZetQNOJK7k-kbsFKfhaPXA1Hm0PY/edit?usp=sharing 

Q: Energy provider? 

A: So Energy

Q:: Can you give us the meter or meter models - or a photo with serial number(s) redacted ?

 A: WNC UBC TN6 - Also see PDF

Q: You will have to check your meter to see whether it's recording on one register or two. If there are two, the meter should also show a 'total import', the sum of both registers.

A: See pdf with meter photos. I have an Import screen but not Total import?

Q: Do you not have any records of your actual meter readings?

A: The readings I have submitted occasionaly match with the smart meter readings. This is shown on the sections of the bills I include in the pdf . I also have the Smart meter readings from the So Energy website in this sheet. 

See tab 'Smart meter readings' https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/152atmIar1BMwXl5ZetQNOJK7k-kbsFKfhaPXA1Hm0PY/edit?usp=sharing 

Q:  Have a look at earlier bills to see what the readings were, looking specifically for smart ones.  Then compare to today's readings to find out what your usage has actually been.  

A: Based on Smart meter readings I have used approx 4035.7 units between 01/01/24 and the estimate on 11/12/24. The totals on the bills exceed this as I highlighted in my first post and why I am querying that there is double counting happening, but I don’t understand if there is good reason for that or not.

Q: Were you on say economy 7 or other multirate at one stage and requested a switch to single rate - 

A: Never had E7. I believe from the bills I have always been on single rate which has changed over time. I’ve attached PDF with section of bills from past 18 months if that helps

Q: do you have one meter - or an old split two meter for twin circuit (where one meter say only measured NSH or HW immersion style heating etc and only one part now smart ?)

A: One meter for electric , one for gas.The elec meter was installed 25/04/22 after I moved to Shell after Green Energy went bust. See PDF

Q: Given there is only one smart meter reading on those statements - we need to know what that corresponds to on actual meter readings  (old day, old night, total etc - ideally both now and at some point in past historically)

A: See tab Smart meter readings https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/152atmIar1BMwXl5ZetQNOJK7k-kbsFKfhaPXA1Hm0PY/edit?usp=sharing 

Q: Firstly you need to gather as many historical bills - paper, email or download as many as you can from the online account before challenging / querying with SO. 

A: I have downloaded all bills for past 18months and copied smart meter readings from the website

Q: When was the last time you had an actual reading on the top and bottom section of your monthly statements - prior to the current ?

A: Never!

Q: go to your actual physical meter or meters - and read not only the total register - but if was multirate - both the peak and off peak registers - and repeat again the next day or few days / next week etc when can (or can again get a friend or relative to do so) - to check if both old multirate registers are still actually present - and if still incrementing.

So your looking for say rate1/r1 total use in kWh, rate2/r2 in kWh and total in kWh.

A: I’ve included all the different screens from my meter in the pdf but did not see anything which suggested different rates

Q: Again if your not sure - post meter type or photo / IHD photo etc - and someone will send you a link or instructions - it's often just a simple large button press - and on some models - the display then just cycles through active registers if watch it for a minute or so.

A: Video uploaded https://photos.app.goo.gl/1XP6JPh9uMxHprto6 

Gerry1

Do the quick and easy  Meter Sanity Check for a basic check of its accuracy.

Ildhund

Thanks for all the documentation. I needed permission I didn't have to view your spreadsheets ...

However, this is the crucial bit:
    

  
Your 40-year-old meter was removed on 25 April 2022 and replaced with the new EDMI smart meter. However, Shell apparently failed to record this and inform the national database of the removal. The meter is still registered at your address, connected to the same supply as the new one - which is why there's only one MPAN, because there's only one supply.

SO have been looking for readings from this meter, but the only ones they have are the ones you submitted by mistake because you didn't notice the meter serial number (MSN). The others have been invented to fit what some billing person thought they ought to be.

All the readings since April 22 apply only to the new meter whose MSN starts with 22M. Any charges since April 2022 resulting from readings allocated to the old meter (MSN S82 ...) shouldn't have been raised and you should complain to have them all returned. Your complaint should also require SO to have this old meter expunged not only from your account and their other records, but also from the national database. You should ask to be rebilled for the entire period since you switched to SO. I can't remember whether you said when this switch took place, but it's possible that all your billing since 25 April 2022 is suspect. You may have a legitimate claim against the previous supplier(s) if there were any.

Scot_39

Tend to concur with ldhund - your being billed for a phantom meter - and by a potentially huge amount - since installed.

Ironically they have been more consistently allocating your smart readings to the lower / older meter - which may not have been smart anyway - but your manual submissions - to the top.

But do look to have been applying other customer reads to the correct meter - the top section of bills periodically in the past.

Evidenced by - pdf page 4 - with redacted SN and MPANs in pdf with two yellow post-its type text blocks re same MPAN.

The 4 dec smart read 96xx is shown on lower meter section - the old one with the serial number matching the SMS meter removed tag serial number (S82xxxxxxx) - and - the 9732 for dec 11 has appeared - actually correctly for once I suspect - on the upper meter (22Exxxxx) section - as for whatever reason they have crossed this month.

But this is not the first time this has happened and caused larger bills  - July, May and the last real biggy Feb 24 - following the application of user readings to the "new" meter.  In Feb they billed you c1330 / £370 on the top part after a customer reading submitted 8 Feb - and still c515kWh / £143 for the bottom - an even bigger false error than Dec. 

And the Dec 11 smart does appear true reading - actually aligning with the shown 9858 import on pdf p1 - as from today (so you look to have used 126kWh in say 7-8 days - which if expand to a the last billing month - you arent likely using using their claimed 1100+370 = 1480 kWh in a month)

Basically they have "billed" you - to Dec 11 statement - 9733 on top meter - now - just for now - probably correctly - but now an estimated 9668 on the bottom. As near as can be double billing you.

Whereas - I suspect that - all you really owed was the 9733 smart reading - over the two+ years.

pwood45

Ah amazing. This finally makes some sense. Thanks so much!!! My account is currently in £1400 debt to So Energy despite my monthly payments so hopefully this will get wiped off. 

Scot_39

Good luck with SO.

Remember if your not getting any immefiate response to register as a complaint, and then you can escalate to Ombudsman after 8 weeks.

As you say should hopefully wipe out the debit and then some.

Over the period your rates have changed- but ag current rates c25p - if ldhund and I have understood it right  you could be looking at over the 9600 kWh on bottom line x 25p correction to balance  - but they hopefully will use the historic rates - by removing the amounts as charged on that meter. 

Let us know how you get on.

pwood45

Success 

I had this email response from So Energy below. I should mention that my first two online chats with them , earlier in the week and this morning, they confirmed that there was no issue with my bills or two meters showing on my account, it was denied that this could be a problem, and it's only through your help here that I had the confidence to challenge this, so thanks again for your help, as you can see it's made a big difference and a weight off my mind! I could easily have walked away and had to save up over time to pay off the incorrect charges.

To be fair, I don't think the root cause of this problem was caused by So Energy, but there is perhaps a lack of awareness / training about the possibility of this being a possiblity with their customer contact team. Also I do appreciate the speed at which this has been resolved.

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Thank you for contacting us recently. 

Just to confirm I raised your issue of the two charges showing on your bills for your electricity meter and these charges were indeed in error as an extra meter that is no longer present at the property was still being charged.

This has now been corrected and your bills revised and this results in a benefit to you of £1666.03. You will see this revision now leaves your account in a credit of £246.53 as opposed to the £1416.50 of debt that was previously showing.

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I now worry how many other people might be in a similar situation , and like me had no idea that it was even possible to have 'phantom meter' you are getting billed for, or queried it and were fobbed off by the supplier. Is there anything a consumer can do to check how many meters are against their MPAN after getting a smart meter installed or replaced?

QrizB

pwood45 said:

Is there anything a consumer can do to check how many meters are against their MPAN after getting a smart meter installed or replaced?

That's a good result!

Regarding your question, it should be clear if you check your energy bills carefully. The bill shows your MPAN and the serial number(s) of the meter(s) you're being charged for.

So long as the meter(s) on the bill are the ones physically present, and the meter readings match the ones you can see on the meter, everything should be ok.

There's a related problem with flats and new-build estates where the wrong meter is associated with the wrong property. We get half-a-dozen-ish cases a year on this forum.

debitcardmayhem

Well done , helps with Christmas coming up, and thanks for updating us

Gerry1

Time to ask for compo for all the aggro, waste of time and risk of serious ongoing overcharging.  Around 10% of the overcharge, say £150 and maybe settle for £100.  If no luck, threaten with Ombudsman (which if followed up would cost them around £500, win or lose).