Premium Bonds and Probate

Freyagirl

RAS said:

At present, on-line applications with no queries seem to be processed in weeks rather than months, providing there is no IHT to pay. Have you clarified that situation?

Nothing to stop you marketing the property once you've applied for probate, as long as you tell your potential buyers what the situation is. You just cannot exchange contracts until probate is granted.

Yes using the online calculation no IHT is payable.  They are quoting 16 weeks on the HMRC site.

Freyagirl

Flugelhorn said:

Keep_pedalling said:

poppystar said:

Why would obtaining probate delay the lady moving? Surely she can do that now and if the premium bonds are the only asset that needs probate they can be dealt with later. 

Agree, If she is wanting to sell her home she does need probate if she owned it jointly with her husband so applying for probate for other assets will not impact her move.

PBs can continue to be kept in the draw for 1 year after the death of the account owner but it will be best to get on with applying probate now as it does take some time to obtain.

I didn't think probate for husband was needed if they jointly owned the home? I sold mother's property with only her probate and just sight of father's death cert  

Apparently it is up to individual institutions (banks, share companies, etc) whether probate is needed in straightforward estates which this would be.  If you have to get probate my understanding is it applies to everything so can't complete on selling a property until probate is granted even though NS & I would be the only organisation asking for it.

Flugelhorn

Freyagirl said:

Thank you for the replies so far but you all seem to believe the property can be sold before probate is obtained and I have read this information 'In the UK, an executor cannot sell a property before obtaining probate without the necessary legal authority. Probate is required to confirm the executor’s authority to manage the estate, including selling property.'

It seems that  can take a minimum of four months from the time of applying, this means the spouse of the deceased is looking at at least another 6-9months before selling, as the property is big, in need of constant maintenance and she really want to move away from the isolated location she is in we really want to get it on the market as soon as possible.

Going back to the idea of leaving the premium bonds alone, yes eventually someone will need to get probate to access the money but with no other close family the bulk of the estate, when the spouse dies will go to charity and they will have the expertise and time to apply for probate.

If the deceased and spouse were joint owners of the property (were they? or were they TiC?)  then now the spouse is the sole owner and can sell the house, the executor does not need to be involved 

Keep_pedalling

Flugelhorn said:

Freyagirl said:

Thank you for the replies so far but you all seem to believe the property can be sold before probate is obtained and I have read this information 'In the UK, an executor cannot sell a property before obtaining probate without the necessary legal authority. Probate is required to confirm the executor’s authority to manage the estate, including selling property.'

It seems that  can take a minimum of four months from the time of applying, this means the spouse of the deceased is looking at at least another 6-9months before selling, as the property is big, in need of constant maintenance and she really want to move away from the isolated location she is in we really want to get it on the market as soon as possible.

Going back to the idea of leaving the premium bonds alone, yes eventually someone will need to get probate to access the money but with no other close family the bulk of the estate, when the spouse dies will go to charity and they will have the expertise and time to apply for probate.

If the deceased and spouse where joint owners of the property (were they? or were they TiC?)  then now the spouse is the sole owner and can sell the house, the executor does not need to be involved 

This is nearly correct where the house passed by survivorship (joint tenants) or through a will or intestacy (tenants in common) to the surviving owner probate is not required. If it was you would have to apply for it even if NS&I did not need it.

Freyagirl

I have confirmed there is no IHT to pay.  The lady in question, being 76, would like to move as quickly as possible from her very large old house which is also in an isolated position so having to apply for probate would we feel delay that considerably.  
It does seem that leaving the money with NS & I until she dies would not be an issue, yes someone would have to get probate eventually but as no surviving close family the bulk of the estate will eventually go to charity, time would not be an issue then and they also have people experienced in dealing with bequests.  Does anyone see any issues around doing that?

poppystar

Freyagirl said:

I have confirmed there is no IHT to pay.  The lady in question, being 76, would like to move as quickly as possible from her very large old house which is also in an isolated position so having to apply for probate would we feel delay that considerably.  
It does seem that leaving the money with NS & I until she dies would not be an issue, yes someone would have to get probate eventually but as no surviving close family the bulk of the estate will eventually go to charity, time would not be an issue then and they also have people experienced in dealing with bequests.  Does anyone see any issues around doing that?

If they held the property as joint tenants and so don’t need probate to sell then there is no reason why applying for probate would delay any move. The two things - selling/moving and getting probate for the premium bonds - would be two entirely separate things. One won’t delay the other. 

Keep_pedalling

Freyagirl said:

I have confirmed there is no IHT to pay.  The lady in question, being 76, would like to move as quickly as possible from her very large old house which is also in an isolated position so having to apply for probate would we feel delay that considerably.  
It does seem that leaving the money with NS & I until she dies would not be an issue, yes someone would have to get probate eventually but as no surviving close family the bulk of the estate will eventually go to charity, time would not be an issue then and they also have people experienced in dealing with bequests.  Does anyone see any issues around doing that?

It has been explained to you by several members on here that applying for probate will not cause any delays, why don’t you believe us? 

Freyagirl

Keep_pedalling said:

Freyagirl said:

I have confirmed there is no IHT to pay.  The lady in question, being 76, would like to move as quickly as possible from her very large old house which is also in an isolated position so having to apply for probate would we feel delay that considerably.  
It does seem that leaving the money with NS & I until she dies would not be an issue, yes someone would have to get probate eventually but as no surviving close family the bulk of the estate will eventually go to charity, time would not be an issue then and they also have people experienced in dealing with bequests.  Does anyone see any issues around doing that?

It has been explained to you by several members on here that applying for probate will not cause any delays, why don’t you believe us? 

It isn't that I don't believe you but the house could go on the market tomorrow and be sold with a couple of months probably, if we have to apply for probate first we have to complete the form and then wait (in HMRC's view) about 16 weeks for probate to be granted that is four months before we could go to exchange of contracts on property and given that it is the time of year when more people die the time to get probate will not be shorter but likely longer than predicted. 

Flugelhorn

Freyagirl said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Freyagirl said:

I have confirmed there is no IHT to pay.  The lady in question, being 76, would like to move as quickly as possible from her very large old house which is also in an isolated position so having to apply for probate would we feel delay that considerably.  
It does seem that leaving the money with NS & I until she dies would not be an issue, yes someone would have to get probate eventually but as no surviving close family the bulk of the estate will eventually go to charity, time would not be an issue then and they also have people experienced in dealing with bequests.  Does anyone see any issues around doing that?

It has been explained to you by several members on here that applying for probate will not cause any delays, why don’t you believe us? 

It isn't that I don't believe you but the house could go on the market tomorrow and be sold with a couple of months probably, if we have to apply for probate first we have to complete the form and then wait (in HMRC's view) about 16 weeks for probate to be granted that is four months before we could go to exchange of contracts on property and given that it is the time of year when more people die the time to get probate will not be shorter but likely longer than predicted. 

but you don't need probate to sell the house 

Keep_pedalling

Freyagirl said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Freyagirl said:

I have confirmed there is no IHT to pay.  The lady in question, being 76, would like to move as quickly as possible from her very large old house which is also in an isolated position so having to apply for probate would we feel delay that considerably.  
It does seem that leaving the money with NS & I until she dies would not be an issue, yes someone would have to get probate eventually but as no surviving close family the bulk of the estate will eventually go to charity, time would not be an issue then and they also have people experienced in dealing with bequests.  Does anyone see any issues around doing that?

It has been explained to you by several members on here that applying for probate will not cause any delays, why don’t you believe us? 

It isn't that I don't believe you but the house could go on the market tomorrow and be sold with a couple of months probably, if we have to apply for probate first we have to complete the form and then wait (in HMRC's view) about 16 weeks for probate to be granted that is four months before we could go to exchange of contracts on property and given that it is the time of year when more people die the time to get probate will not be shorter but likely longer than predicted. 

I will try to keep this simple. Applying for probate for one asset, does not slow down the sale of any other asset that does not need probate. The house sale does not require probate therefore applying for it does not affect the sale. To put it another way whether probate is needed for a house sale or transfer depends on whether the property is inherited by a co-owner or not, it  does not suddenly become necessary because you need it for something else unrelated to it.