Why Are Some Posts Inadmissible?

hoc

I have greatly reduced posting on MSE forums because of the unprofessional moderation. There are more inclusive financial forums with more intelligent discussion and uncensored opinions out there.

Nebulous2

Society is becoming increasingly polarised. It has also become more obsessed with individual topics that dominate people's thoughts - creating culture wars, letting the specific dominate and losing the  big picture. 

Where people have become impassioned about one item, the algorithms on social media pick up their interest and feed them more and more of the topic they are inflamed about. This encourages the belief they are right, and also the idea that their view has widespread support. 

Behaviour has become worse as a consequence. Online behaviour has spilled over into daily life, with all sorts of public- facing people being at risk of aggression and even physical violence from people for whom social media has become more real than what lies outside their front door. 

So pity MSE staff and mods caught up in all this. It is an impossible circle to square.

I'm kind of in favour of not letting the culture wars in at all. If people want to express a view on immigration, either way, there are other places to do it. 

Equally in an attempt to move myself away from any extremes, I decided to drop the use of derogatory nicknames for public figures several years ago. I think Mallygirl made that point, as soon as a childish tabloid nickname is used for someone, the conversation will further deteriorate, and closing the thread, although a blunt weapon, is the best way of keeping the level of dissent we see in online comments about news articles out of here. 

MattMattMattUK

Linton said:

westv said:

MallyGirl said:

westv said:

Why can't posts be deleted rather than threads?

MSE HQ can deleted individual posts but it is time consuming, especially when the posts get quoted by other people. Best to just stick to the rules and avoid political comment.

Which (as has already been mentioned) is difficult when pensions and pensions subjects can, by their very nature, be political.

I dont see why.  The questions that can best be answered in a forum like this are factual or an opinion on how the facts can best be managed to achieve some objective.  Political questions are about what should be the case degenerating into whose fault is it that what should be the case isn't.

I mean this as a genuine question, not in any confrontational way, because it gets to the heart of the issue with some of these "political" threads that the MSE team create. What questions, based on the WASPE decision, which was an entirely political decision and discussion could be answered? It has already failed at every legal hurdle and has run out of road legally, the only choice was for the government to change it's mind and go against what the courts had previously decided. The government made a political decision not to had over taxpayer's money. I really struggle to see how there is any discussion around that piece of news that could be discussed without the discussion being political. 

MarkCarnage

hyubh said:

eskbanker said:

It does seem a shame that it doesn't prove possible to have a cordial discussion about certain topical news stories without them swiftly escalating into divisive rhetoric and being closed/deleted, perhaps there should be some sort of sticky or pinned thread that clarifies the forum admin's position on this in a bit more detail than the generic 'political debate' proviso?

It's not too hard to divine. The particular issue in question attracts irregular and new posters, and the latter especially assume the MSE pensions board will be sympathetic. Au contraire though, board regulars are deeply unsympathetic. Hence what ensues is a heated 'debate' that just radicalises each side.

Having a 'sticky' on the topic won't change the dynamic. Who bothers reading instructions when there's no obvious ambiguity in how to get stuck in...?

Unfortunately most of the vociferous proponents in this are singularly unburdened with facts. I have been critical of many of this Government's decisions but I think they got this one right. However, it is a political nightmare to them as Corbyn had pinned his colours to the mast in opposition. 

The moderation of these boards does leave a lot to be desired at times too. 

artyboy

This does feel like a bit of an "I told you so" moment, after that spectacularly ill advised (and inevitably short lived) thread created by the MSE team themselves.

With added irony points for the fact that another similar thread had just been deleted...

Not something where you could really apply the 'only with hindsight' defence.

QrizB

artyboy said:

This does feel like a bit of an "I told you so" moment, after that spectacularly ill advised (and inevitably short lived) thread created by the MSE team themselves.

That did seem to be tempting fate somewhat. Oh well, never mind.

booneruk

I wish I could recall with certainty but I'm pretty sure the MSE news article linked directly into the post they created, which they then later had to close and finally delete completely.

I do sympathise somewhat with the moderators. It must be overwhelming when a potentially 'political' thread, particularly one they've publicised, receives a lot of new posts. I don't recall any really troublesome posts, but perhaps they were busy moderating them away. Eventually it might have been a case of the moderators being overwhelmed and closing the thread.

Pollycat

MarkCarnage said:

hyubh said:

eskbanker said:

It does seem a shame that it doesn't prove possible to have a cordial discussion about certain topical news stories without them swiftly escalating into divisive rhetoric and being closed/deleted, perhaps there should be some sort of sticky or pinned thread that clarifies the forum admin's position on this in a bit more detail than the generic 'political debate' proviso?

It's not too hard to divine. The particular issue in question attracts irregular and new posters, and the latter especially assume the MSE pensions board will be sympathetic. Au contraire though, board regulars are deeply unsympathetic. Hence what ensues is a heated 'debate' that just radicalises each side.

Having a 'sticky' on the topic won't change the dynamic. Who bothers reading instructions when there's no obvious ambiguity in how to get stuck in...?

Unfortunately most of the vociferous proponents in this are singularly unburdened with facts. I have been critical of many of this Government's decisions but I think they got this one right. However, it is a political nightmare to them as Corbyn had pinned his colours to the mast in opposition. 

Not to forget Keir Starmer, Liz Kendall & Rachel Reeves - who when in opposition came out in support of the group under discussion.
Easy to support any group who creates enough publicity for their cause when you're in opposition.

MSE_JC

Hi all,

We've moved this thread to Site Feedback since that's the most relevant place for it.

I've addressed similar concerns - among others - at length in a response to a thread which you can read here, and so we've closed this thread for the same reasons that we'll be closing the other thread.

But to address some of the specific points raised here:

perhaps there should be some sort of sticky or pinned thread that clarifies the forum admin's position on this in a bit more detail than the generic 'political debate' proviso?

We're definitely happy to look at posting something a little bit more in-depth to support the site-wide banner if some users feel more detail would be helpful.

Why can't posts be deleted rather than threads?

Sometimes a thread has simply gone too far off track by the time it's brought to our attention and cannot be salvaged, to the degree where removing certain posts would just leave behind an impossible-to-follow series of replies that is of no use to our users. Sometimes the title or entire topic of a thread is in breach of the rules.

Each moderation decision the team make is done so on a case-by-case basis. We don't remove content lightly, but is it regrettably a necessary part of the job when called for. 

I have greatly reduced posting on MSE forums because of the unprofessional moderation. There are more inclusive financial forums with more intelligent discussion and uncensored opinions out there.

Each to their own, @hoc! Many of our users frequent other forums alongside ours, which is great. 'Infinite diversity in infinite combinations.' Each platform has their own approaches to moderation, and each approach brings its own unique set of challenges.

The MSE Forum's regularly reviewed and updated moderation policy has been carefully crafted around the needs of our community, MSE's consumer protection ethos and our legal/regulatory obligations. Asking users to refrain from political discussions helps keeps the Forum focused on MoneySaving so that is as useful as it can be for those who need it. If people want to engage in political debate, there are plenty of avenues for that on the internet.

Still, it's important to make the distinction that we don't censor opinions on the MSE Forum. If, say, someone visited a restaurant with rules against throwing cutlery then proceeded to chuck silverware about, the waiters wouldn't be censoring the patron by picking up the mess and asking them to stop - especially if there where other eateries where lobbing tablespoons was acceptable.

Furthermore, I should say that the MoneySavingExpert Forum Team are a conscientious, diligent and highly professional group of experienced community managers who approach every situation in a way that puts the users first.

Finally, it's worth pointing out that this discussion about the Forum's approach to political debate has itself attracted posts engaging in political debate, which demonstrates how a thread can go off topic and why there's a need for our position on political discussions.

As some of the Forumites here have mentioned, it is not always an easy task to walk the line between politics and MoneySaving. We aim to give users the freedom to discuss all manner of MoneySaving topics, but that freedom needs to be safeguarded with rules. If a misstep is made, we always own it and take any feedback on board.

Hopefully that addresses some of the concerns brought up in the thread.

All the best,

MSE JC