HELP - reply for landlord's management is confusing

sillyandskint

Hi all and thank you for your help in advance! 

I parked in what I thought was a Morrisons car park just over a month ago and then had a parking charge notice sent in the post. I disputed the charge using advice from other threads to do with the same location and the newbies forum but have just checked my junk folder to see that the landlord's facilities management had gotten back to me two weeks ago and it is very very very confusing. 

I'll copy their reply below (with my original points not in bold), but I would really appreciate any help as I cannot afford this charge. The week of the alleged parking happened I had just been dumped by my boyfriend and found out I was being let go from my job so looking at parking signs was not at the forefront of my mind. 

Thank you again! 

Email reads as follows:

I have been passed on your query regarding the PCN you received at Butterfly Walk Shopping Centre on the 14/11/2024

We are Atlantis FM ltd and have a contract with the landlord to manage Butterfly Walk Shopping centre car park. 

Butterfly Walk Shopping Centre has been a BPA approved car park for many years and meets or the criteria and regulations.

My comments are in bold.

I have received a PCN from the Butterfly Walk Car Park that is owned by Mumbo Jumbo World. I am writing to ask you as the registered keeper to cancel the PCN 2726856228 for the following reasons. 

A notice to keeper was “issued" on 14/11/2024 and received by me, the registered keeper of KS55 TVU for an alleged contravention of ‘BREACH OF THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF USE’’ at Butterfly Walk. 

1) This Notice to Keeper (NTK) is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA) due to the dates as the notice was only received on the 20th November, and the PCN must be received within 14 days of the alleged offence by the driver. Not 16. 

There are two types of notice to keeper : POFA and Non-POFA.

A POFA-compliant notice must be sent to the registered keeper within 14 days of the alleged parking violation.

In contrast, there is no legal timeframe for serving a Non-POFA notice.

2)The operator has not shown that the individual who it is pursuing is in fact liable for the charge.

Notices to keeper are typically issued to the registered keeper of the vehicle. Under Non-POFA regulations, the registered keeper is entitled to contest whether they are the driver at the time of the alleged violation.

3) The signs in this car park are not prominent, clear or legible from all parking spaces and there is insufficient notice of the sum of the parking charge itself. I am struggling to find evidence of planning permission for any signs in the area as well. 

The requirement for planning permission is determined by factors including the dimensions, height, and lighting of the signage.

In the case of Butterfly Walk planning permission is not required. 

All signs in the car park comply with the BPA code of practice for signage on private land.

While no specific rule governs the number of signs per parking space, it is recommended to have an entry sign displaying parking terms and to position signs evenly through out the area.

The car park currently has 32 signs, averaging one sign per 4.5 parking spaces.

4) No evidence of Landowner Authority - the operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice

There is no requirement to publicly display or share landowner authority; however compliance with BPA requires this documentation, and we have the land owner's authority

 I would really appreciate you looking into this and seeing whether you may be able to help me with this appeal. Happy to provide more information if you would like as well.

Appeals - You can appeal in writing only at ce-service within 28 days to the address above. You must include all relevant supporting evidence to assist with your case. If your appeal to us is unsuccessful we will send you the contact details for Parking on Private Land Appeals (POPLA) who, if you wish, will determine your appeal independently.

sillyandskint

EDIT: I've just checked the original letter and it said it was issued under Section 4 of the Protection of Freedom Act, so I am really confused as to why he's giving me the details for a non-POFA? Is he just being naughty?

DE_612183

I think if I was appealing to the landlord I would have been a bit more personal about my request and asked them that under the personal circumstances they could see their way to cancelling it.

By setting out the rights and wrongs of the parking company you've probably antagonised them more than needed - hence the response received. 

sillyandskint

I was following the advice given in this forum & newbies thread. 
Being personal would have meant saying that I was the driver which would have ruined the appeal process. 

DE_612183

sillyandskint said:

I was following the advice given in this forum & newbies thread. 
Being personal would have meant saying that I was the driver which would have ruined the appeal process. 

Not to the landowner - anyway you could have said "the driver was recently been xxxxx etc etc".

The text you laid out is more about the appeal to the PPC or POLA etc - not the landowner.

I've done this recently, and was apologetic to the landowner and they were happy to oblige - this was pub though not a supermarket.

sillyandskint

Ahhh ok! I've done it like that before with a supermarket and it worked but the landlord is actually a building development company and in my original email I had fluffed it out with niceties outside of the main text. 
I just replied to the contract manager asking them to confirm whether or not the notice was issued inline with POFA or not, as their email implied it wasn't but the letter said it was. 

DE_612183

No worries - Plan A didn't work - you still got Plan B,C&D!

Coupon-mad

"We are Atlantis FM ltd"

...really?!  They did not write this:

"If your appeal to us is unsuccessful we will send you the contact details for Parking on Private Land Appeals (POPLA)"

That's from CEL themselves.

Doesn't matter if it's 'POFA worded' or not but it probably is.  You can easily tell because the NEWBIES thread has a link to my NTK pictures thread. So does my posting profile. Look at the NTK pictures & find which one you have.

Just ignore CEL if you don't win at POPLA.  You'll never pay them but you must keep them updated if you move house within 6 years. Come back if you ever get a LBC or court claim form. That's all.

sillyandskint

Hello both, 

Thank you so much for your help so far! 

I have recently been diagnosed with ADHD and being unemployed and heartbroken meant I kept forgetting to appeal. 

What is CEL? 

They have now sent a couple of letters (attached) to my house and my parents as DCBL (direct collection baliffs). I've been having panic attacks and not sleeping and have stupidly just been putting it off. 
I never appealed through ceservice and the letter says it's too late for that - but should I still try to there?

@Coupon-mad I know in the main thread you say to just ignore these letters but I'm very anxious and skint and don't want to have to go to court or have bailiffs at my house.  Whats an LBC? 

I'm really sorry for the repetitive questions but I really dont understand the forum or stages and am very stressed about this 

Thank you 

[Image removed by Forum Team]

Coupon-mad

What is CEL? 

Oh, sorry ... is it in fact Parking Eye?

Come on - you can all comfortably ignore threatograms. Sit tight. Do nothing except the below.

By going confidently into the 'ignore' stance, the only steps to take (because you MUST check every letter) are:

- Tell them if you move house within 6 years.

- Ignore the tedious £170 threatograms shown in pictures in the 4th post of the NEWBIES thread.

- Come back if you get a solicitor's LBC as per the 2nd post of the NEWBIES thread.

Nobody pays a penny unless a Judge says so. There is no risk AT ALL in defending a court claim. No CCJ. No bailiffs.