Amazon or Big Brother?

user1977

Embiber said:

As I said my main concern is who else Amazon might be passing this false information on to.

Who are you concerned about them passing this information on to?   If they have credible evidence of fraud they may contact the police, which is the right thing to do.  

As the thread has developed and you've provided more information, it's a little clearer as to possibly why your account has been suspended.  You've had seven returns in four years and this is a high-value item of the sort where fraudulent behaviour is increasingly common.

My advice remains to sit tight.  I suspect this will sort itself out, whereas if you keep pestering them or go legal, you may provoke a premature outcome not in your best interests.

Companies such as credit rating agencies. There is clearly no evidence of fraud, I am concerned that if Amazon has classified it as fraud and that this false information will be passed on to others. 

Where have you heard of them doing such a thing? Or generally of credit rating agencies using such allegations?

Embiber

You are correct, I chose two years because the one and only return I have made recently was in November 2024 and two years seemed be a sensible time period to judge whether or not I had been making excessive return requests.
I opened the account in 2007, My complete history of returns including returns for refunds and returns for replacements is as follows 2007-2012=0. 2013=1, 2014=1, 2015-2017=0, 2018=1, 2019=0, 2020=3, 2021=0, 2022=3, 2023=0, 2024=1. A total of 10 return requests over 18 years

Interesting that your take is 10 in 14 years (or 1 in 2 years you said earlier) when the reality is 7 in last 4 years with the latest a high value item that, by your own admission, will now have to be sold as a return. Easy to see why the closed your account but still think you are entitled to a cash refund if they won't let you spend it.

The problem with numbers is to put things in to the proper context without going in to massive detail  I did state that these numbers were "returns for refunds and returns for replacements". If an item is faulty, fails within the guarantee period or is not as described would you want to keep it or return it?  If an item was not delivered because it was out of stock, would you want a refund?  Would you then consider it fair to count these as excessive refund requests?
The numbers I gave were for items I returned for whatever reason. You wrote it was 7 items over 4 years but it is fact 7 items over 5 years, 
It is interesting that you think 7 is a high number.  Amazon do not provide numbers for returns but Googling this seems to come up with an industry minimum estimate of 5% and the number gets higher depending on the category.  In the last 5 years I have purchased 185 items.  I have made 7 returns for different reasons, This is a return rate of 3.8%.

TheSpectator

Embiber said:

You are correct, I chose two years because the one and only return I have made recently was in November 2024 and two years seemed be a sensible time period to judge whether or not I had been making excessive return requests.
I opened the account in 2007, My complete history of returns including returns for refunds and returns for replacements is as follows 2007-2012=0. 2013=1, 2014=1, 2015-2017=0, 2018=1, 2019=0, 2020=3, 2021=0, 2022=3, 2023=0, 2024=1. A total of 10 return requests over 18 years

Interesting that your take is 10 in 14 years (or 1 in 2 years you said earlier) when the reality is 7 in last 4 years with the latest a high value item that, by your own admission, will now have to be sold as a return. Easy to see why the closed your account but still think you are entitled to a cash refund if they won't let you spend it.

The problem with numbers is to put things in to the proper context without going in to massive detail  I did state that these numbers were "returns for refunds and returns for replacements". If an item is faulty, fails within the guarantee period or is not as described would you want to keep it or return it?  If an item was not delivered because it was out of stock, would you want a refund?  Would you then consider it fair to count these as excessive refund requests?
The numbers I gave were for items I returned for whatever reason. You wrote it was 7 items over 4 years but it is fact 7 items over 5 years, 
It is interesting that you think 7 is a high number.  Amazon do not provide numbers for returns but Googling this seems to come up with an industry minimum estimate of 5% and the number gets higher depending on the category.  In the last 5 years I have purchased 185 items.  I have made 7 returns for different reasons, This is a return rate of 3.8%.

You can try and crunch numbers all you want but the only opinion is that of Amazon's, who it seems no longer want you as a customer.

Probably the final straw was a 'mistaken order' for a phone. Ignoring the question who manages to mistakenly order a phone in the first place, the mere act of opening the box devalues the product so it is possibly not just a number of returns issue but, for Amazon, you are becoming a pita customer

MattMattMattUK

Embiber said:

It is interesting that you think 7 is a high number.  Amazon do not provide numbers for returns but Googling this seems to come up with an industry minimum estimate of 5% and the number gets higher depending on the category.  In the last 5 years I have purchased 185 items.  I have made 7 returns for different reasons, This is a return rate of 3.8%.

My understanding is that whilst the return rate across retail is around 4.5% that is hugely skewed by clothing where the return rate is in double digits, most non-clothing the return rate will be less than 1%. More importantly they will have looked at the pattern of your return and what it has cost them, as you have now returned an item that was new after opening that will likely have cost them a significant write down on that item, 20-50% depending on the item, plus the cost of postage both ways, the cost of checking, re-stocking etc..

Amazon have decided that they no longer want to do business with you, likely because it is not commercially viable, they are totally within their rights to do that. I would also add that if you have been as combative and difficult in your conversations with them as you have been with people on here you will certainly have not inspired any of the customer service people to want to help you.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

MattMattMattUK said:

My understanding is that whilst the return rate across retail is around 4.5% that is hugely skewed by clothing where the return rate is in double digits, most non-clothing the return rate will be less than 1%. 

Do you have source for these figures? 

I only Googled for a minute, this says 27% for clothes and 7-8% for most other items (dated Dec 2023):

https://www.whistl.co.uk/research/ecommerce-returns#form02

One Guardian article says 50%, a BBC article 25%, a random website says 1 in 3.

Unless a major retailer has ever published detailed data then I don't think we can really know as statistics are easy to manipulate and pretty much always serve the agenda of those presenting them. 

"Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything Kent. Forfty percent of all people know that"

Ergates

Embiber said:

Alderbank said:

Embiber said:

Amazon bill themselves as, “building the most consumer-centric company in the world but my experience is very different.  Once Amazon have made a decision there is no complaint procedure and no way to get an independent review.  The only reality is what Big Brother Amazon says it is.

8 days ago, Amazon falsely accused me of fraud.  They said I had requested too many returns.  This is demonstrably false.  Over the last 2 years I have purchased 68 items and made 1 return, which was 3 weeks ago.  Unfortunately, it was an expensive item and I accepted the refund as an Amazon gift credit.  Currently I have a £515.65 credit on my account but Amazon will not let me use this credit to buy anything.
The Amazon email says I can appeal this decision.  I have made an appeal.  I have received no acknowledgement of making an appeal.  Customer service told me I must wait 3 days for a response but in the 7 days since, Amazon has not responded.  I have emailed them every day asking for a response.
Amazon have also banned me from opening another account or using any other account.
I have looked in to this and it seems that Amazon does not have a complaint process and are not legally required to provide one.  The terms and conditions you agreed to when you opened the account apply.

My great concern is what false information about me are Amazon passing on to other companies?

Has this happened to anyone else?
How do I get out of this nightmare?

History
About a week I was sitting at home when my Amazon Echo automatically factory reset itself.  I thought that was weird, then minutes later I received this email from Amazon;

"Hello,
We have closed this account because you have consistently requested refunds for a large number of your orders. While we expect the occasional problem with an order, we cannot continue to issue refunds   to you at this rate.
We have cancelled any open orders and pending refunds on marketplace orders you had on this account.
Any digital content that you purchased with this account is still available to you. To access the content, click the “Manage Your Content and Devices” link on the "Your Orders" menu on Amazon!co!uk.
If you would like to appeal this decision, please reply to this email to reach an Account Specialist. Our Customer Service team can only confirm that we sent this message and help you with technical issues. They cannot reverse this decision or share more details on this matter.
Sincerely,
Account Specialist
Amazon!co!uk”

This is clearly a false statement, because in the last 2 years I have purchased 68 items and only made 1 return, on 27th November.  This was a for a mistaken purchase for which I accepted an Amazon gift card credit, which took 5 days to arrive.  I did not realise my mistake until I opened the item but I returned the item in immaculate condition, so it could be resold as a return.   Unfortunately, it was an expensive item and there was credit of over £500 on my account.
I tried to login but there was message on screen to say my account had been closed.  I then found that all of my Audible books had been deleted.  So, the statement "Any digital content that you purchased with this account is still available to you." was false.
This is part of the Big Brother issue.  The evidence my Amazon order history shows I have only made 1 return in 2 years.  So, the accusation of multiple returns is patently untrue.
Naturally I emailed an appeal but the email address is a vague catch-all email address ofm@amazon!com.  I explained that this claim of multiple returns was wrong as I had only made 1 return in 2 years.  I asked on what evidence were Amazon making this false accusation.
As I could not login into my account, I could not contact customer support.  On Googling, I found that there is a UK number (020 7084 7911) you can call for customer support and after a lot of messing about you can get to speak to someone but as the email says they cannot help you.
Amazon have no complaints procedure and there is no legal requirement for them to provide one.  I did try once before on another issue but the customer support agent just lied to me.  They said it had to go another department and I would receive an email in 24 hours.
However, in response to my call to customer service I received this email a couple of hours later;

"Hello,
We are writing to you to follow up on the recent correspondence you had with our Customer Service team.
We are contacting you to let you know that you can use the gift card balance in your account to purchase digital items only.
Why we are writing?
We have restricted your account to digital purchases only. We will automatically cancel all non- digital orders placed on Amazon!co!uk and if you have been charged, a refund will be processed.
Why did this happen?
We took this action because our records show that we closed another account of yours for not meeting the terms of our Conditions of Use & Sale. When we close your account for violating the terms of this agreement, you cannot open a new account or use another account to place orders from our store.
You may use your gift card balance to purchase digital content.
To learn more about our policies, go to "Amazon!co!uk Conditions of Use & Sale":
https // :www!amazon!co!uk/help/conditionsofuse
If you would like to appeal this decision, reply to this email to reach an Account Specialist. Our Customer Service team can only confirm that we sent this message and help you with technical issues. They cannot reverse this decision or share more details on this matter.
Account Specialist
Amazon!co!uk"

So as well as making a false accusation of fraud against me, not allowing me to spend my money , Amazon are also denying me any future access to their platform.  Very Big Brother.
On checking I found that I could now login to my Amazon account and access my Audible books but all of my Audible credits had been deleted.
This action was not taken in response to my appeal.  My initial appeal has not been acknowledged or responded to, nor have my daily requests for a response.

I contacted Audible and when the agent spoke to me they said, "your account was closed because of a fraud".  This means the false accusation is permanently marked on my account.  My Audible credits were restored but as last month’s subscription had occurred while my Amazon account was closed I was billed again.  The money was taken off my credit card and not the account credit balance.
To me this is another Big Brother issue.  Amazon can change the use of word to suit themselves.  In terms of access to my account, Audible books count as digital content but the monthly Audible subscription is classed as a non-digital item.
As Audible books are the only digital item that I purchase this means I cannot use my money to buy what I want.

I have also tried emailing jeff@amazon!com but once again had no response.

MSE says I am not allowed to have links in my post so I have changed . to !

Welcome to the forum.

What is demonstrably false is that Amazon are making any allegation of fraud against you.

They believe you have made 'too many returns', a simple commercial decision. It is probable that an error has occurred, maybe Amazon's sophisticated software or perhaps someone has mis-keyed a number into a terminal.

Over the years there have been a few similar occurrences reported here. Typically they start with Amazon blocking a customer suddenly and without warning, then the account fully restored some weeks later, also out of the blue. Usually no explanation given but some token compensation sometimes reported.

You have to bear in mind the enormous size of Amazon's operation. They have millions of customers around the world and process and fulfil millions of orders every day. They do seem to investigate and resolve these blips eventually but their processes once they move beyond their computer algorithms to real people do seem to take time.

You don't live in a dystopian novel. Amazon are not the ultimate arbiter in this country, our legal system is.

You like any other citizen can take mighty Amazon to court. In the Civil law courts, claimant and defendant are equal. If fact, if the judge has had the same experience as you when buying from Amazon, there might be a slight bias in your favour.

As I said my main concern is who else Amazon might be passing this false information on to.

What false information?  

Ergates

Embiber said:

As I said my main concern is who else Amazon might be passing this false information on to.

Who are you concerned about them passing this information on to?   If they have credible evidence of fraud they may contact the police, which is the right thing to do.  

As the thread has developed and you've provided more information, it's a little clearer as to possibly why your account has been suspended.  You've had seven returns in four years and this is a high-value item of the sort where fraudulent behaviour is increasingly common.

My advice remains to sit tight.  I suspect this will sort itself out, whereas if you keep pestering them or go legal, you may provoke a premature outcome not in your best interests.

Companies such as credit rating agencies. There is clearly no evidence of fraud, I am concerned that if Amazon has classified it as fraud and that this false information will be passed on to others. 

Amazon haven't made any claims of fraud - it's clear from the emails they sent you - they're just choosing not to do business with you any more.

born_again

Embiber said:

born_again said:

Any particular reason that the return was processed as a refund to a gift card, rather than a refund to the payment method?

Yes, I was going to buy several other things in the Black Friday sale.Normally if you ask for gift card refund it is credited to your account when the item is scanned at the return drop off point .  In this case it was not.  I did not get the refund for 6 days by which time I had to buy the items if I wanted the sale price.  I assumed the delay was because of the items high value.

They also refund direct to card the same day when using that process.

Sadly as every company does, they have a right not to deal with you as a customer.