Letting agent claims fence is mine, not theirs?

SecondStar

Apologies, I hope this is the right board for this, but can move if need be. I am an end terrace, and I own my home. Next door is rented by a very nice man.

There is a fence between our 2 back gardens which came down in the storm on Saturday. The ‘good’ side of the downed fence faced my side (the ‘good’ side of the neighbour’s neighbour faces the neighbour’s side, and so on up the terrace).

The ‘good’ side of the fence was in line with where the white painted eaves of my neighbour’s house changes to the black painted eaves of my house.

My back garden is partially wood chipped, and partially loose stones; the neighbour’s back garden is all flagstone paving. The post holes for the fence are through the paving stones in my neighbour’s back garden - you can see where the paving stones have been cut to accommodate the posts, and there is overflowing concrete on the paving from where it was poured to set the posts.

My nice tenant neighbour was in touch with the letting agent on Monday to report the broken fence. The letting agent told my neighbour that the fence belongs to me, not the rented property, purely on the basis that the ‘good’ side faces my house. The letting agent told my neighbour that he would contact the property owner to confirm fence ownership, and would reply to my neighbour if the fence belonged to the tenanted property. My neighbour hasn’t heard anything else.

The letting agent hasn’t come out to look at the tenanted property to see the fence. My neighbour has given me the letting agent number.

Based on the info above, I don’t believe this fence belongs to my property - do you think the same, or otherwise? (I will be getting a copy of mine and next doors deeds shortly.)

I know I can’t force the landlord to replace the fence. Whether it gets reinstated is a conversation between the tenant and the landlord. If it won’t be replaced, and I want my own fence, I’ll erect a new fence a few inches onto my land.

What I want to establish with the letting agent / landlord, is that the broken fence is not mine, and so they must speak with the tenant as to whether it will / will not be replaced or fixed.

Both myself and my neighbour would prefer if the landlord takes responsibility for the fence, and will fix / repair it. If not, my neighbour has offered to split the costs to have to fixed / repaired ourselves. Or else, I’ll foot the whole cost and put up my own fence, entirely on my property.

Do I now get in touch with the letting agent to stress that the fence is not mine, and invite them to view the post holes etc.? Or do I let the above go, and just put up my own fence?

Mr.Generous

Deeds usually show who is responsible for the boundry, but it would be very rare to say what type of fence must be in place, they can use anything. Why not offer to go 50:50 ?

As a landlord I have never bothered asking anyone to contribute, I just fix or replace any fence as I want fencing in place. At home I would ask neighbors to share the cost. If a storm destroys a fence it's usually pretty shot to start with in my experience. It's just a cost of home ownership I'm afraid.

kimwp

I'm not sure why you would put your own fence up in response to this situation - it will cost you more and lose you some of your garden. Surely better just to fix the fence?

Flugelhorn

have you downloaded the plan for your house to see if it shows which is your fence?

teaselMay

Who has the 'good side' of the fence is convention not rule. I looked it up because the side that my neighbour's landlord owns has the good side but they own the fence.

TELLIT01

As said, 'good side' is convention not a rule.  The fence I put up has the good side to me on the basis that I paid for it so I'm having the more attractive side of the fence.  From the description of the positioning of the existing fence it sounds as if it is actually on the neighbouring property.

ThisIsWeird

SecondStar said:

Apologies, I hope this is the right board for this, but can move if need be. I am an end terrace, and I own my home. Next door is rented by a very nice man.
There is a fence between our 2 back gardens which came down in the storm on Saturday. The ‘good’ side of the downed fence faced my side (the ‘good’ side of the neighbour’s neighbour faces the neighbour’s side, and so on up the terrace).
The ‘good’ side of the fence was in line with where the white painted eaves of my neighbour’s house changes to the black painted eaves of my house.
My back garden is partially wood chipped, and partially loose stones; the neighbour’s back garden is all flagstone paving. The post holes for the fence are through the paving stones in my neighbour’s back garden - you can see where the paving stones have been cut to accommodate the posts, and there is overflowing concrete on the paving from where it was poured to set the posts.
My nice tenant neighbour was in touch with the letting agent on Monday to report the broken fence. The letting agent told my neighbour that the fence belongs to me, not the rented property, purely on the basis that the ‘good’ side faces my house. The letting agent told my neighbour that he would contact the property owner to confirm fence ownership, and would reply to my neighbour if the fence belonged to the tenanted property. My neighbour hasn’t heard anything else.
The letting agent hasn’t come out to look at the tenanted property to see the fence. My neighbour has given me the letting agent number.
Based on the info above, I don’t believe this fence belongs to my property - do you think the same, or otherwise? (I will be getting a copy of mine and next doors deeds shortly.)
I know I can’t force the landlord to replace the fence. Whether it gets reinstated is a conversation between the tenant and the landlord. If it won’t be replaced, and I want my own fence, I’ll erect a new fence a few inches onto my land.
What I want to establish with the letting agent / landlord, is that the broken fence is not mine, and so they must speak with the tenant as to whether it will / will not be replaced or fixed.
Both myself and my neighbour would prefer if the landlord takes responsibility for the fence, and will fix / repair it. If not, my neighbour has offered to split the costs to have to fixed / repaired ourselves. Or else, I’ll foot the whole cost and put up my own fence, entirely on my property.
Do I now get in touch with the letting agent to stress that the fence is not mine, and invite them to view the post holes etc.? Or do I let the above go, and just put up my own fence?

Hi SecondStar.

Pleased you have a nice tenant next door :-)

The letting agent was misguided in a number of ways, but mostly in that they should have kept their mouth shut if they didn't know the correct answer - and they clearly don't. I'm not saying they are 'wrong', but chances are they are, and in any case they simply do not know, so to presume was ignorant of them.

From what you describe, it certainly sounds as tho' it's the neighbour's fence, as it seemingly sits on the neighbour's land. But this should be easy to confirm since you are in a terrace, and presumably all the houses are identical? So, it should be quite straightforward to determine the exact middle of where your two houses join! Ie, the centre of the party wall. That would represent the 'true' boundary line, as indicated in your deeds.

The change of colour of the bargeboard is quite telling, but it would be good to confirm that this does indeed mark where your houses 'meet', as paint lines can change over time. Could you post some photos, please, of where your houses join, taken from the fence line? Show enough of the houses so we can hopefully determine where they 'meet'.

The only reason to try and confirm such things is that - historically - there's a chance a fence was wrongly positioned by someone, and the slabs and chips on the respective sides were added afterwards, ergo giving a misleading idea of ownership. For instance, you were considering putting up your own fence on your land, and a new neighbour might then slab right up to this new line...

Your tenant should be able to insist on having a message passed to the LL, and chances are the LL will actually do the right thing.

Albermarle

The deeds will show you where the boundary is . Sometimes there is an indication of who is responsible for each side, sometimes not.
Some people think that you are responsible for the fence to the left as you look into the garden, but again that is only a kind of urban myth and is often not the case.
Often some kind of compromise/sharing of costs is needed in these situations.

ThisIsWeird

SStar, have you looked at your deeds yet?

TELLIT01

Trying to use deeds to determine the precise position of a boundary isn't easy.  The scale is generally small and the width of a drawn line would be many inches/centimetres when scaled up.  A 'T' marking may show responsibility for the boundary.

ThisIsWeird

TELLIT01 said:

Trying to use deeds to determine the precise position of a boundary isn't easy.  The scale is generally small and the width of a drawn line would be many inches/centimetres when scaled up.  A 'T' marking may show responsibility for the boundary.

Yes, that's all I was thinking of in terms of the deeds - whether it suggests boundary responsibility.

To determine the exact boundary line in a terraced house should normally be straight-forward - the middle of the party wall.