Can I get my money back

eskbanker

scottleag said:

eskbanker said:

scottleag said:

They must realise they're going to get really rotten reviews on Booking.com and Tripadvisor and if even just two people change plans to stay with this hotel group as a result they'll have lost more than they gained. I know it won't affect them greatly but even so more or less guaranteeing they'll lose trade seems a bit daft to me.

scottleag said:

eskbanker said:

If the hotel is abiding by its terms, both on changing non-refundable bookings and charging in advance, then you don't have any basis on which to seek any sort of recovery via your bank, and choosing to write bad reviews also seems inappropriate....

Why inappropriate? The hotel could have generated goodwill by changing the booking date by three days. They didn't have to take the money five months in advance. They chose to not do one but did do the other (after not responding to me) Seems to be to perfectly in order to let people know of these practices. 

It obviously depends on how you choose to phrase any reviews - there's no harm in highlighting that the hotel sticks to its published terms, but that's not what was implied by your threat/intention to leave "really rotten reviews" that would be designed to try to lose them business.

Pointing out that by sticking to their published terms they will take payment five months in advance, that they will only respond to correspondence by form emails and unsigned, that they will refuse requests to change a booking by three days even though they have plenty of accommodation. And you could omit the word 'threat' from your comment. Poor international hotel group. Threatened by me trying to lose them business.

I sincerely hope you never tick the wrong box in error and find yourself £200 down as a result.

On reflection, it probably is more applicable to go with the sort of reviews you evidently have in mind, as these are easily spotted and discounted by those looking for informative and rational feedback - whenever I'm reading through reviews it's usually pretty straightforward to judge which party is at fault and to ignore rants accordingly!

scottleag

eskbanker said:

scottleag said:

eskbanker said:

scottleag said:

They must realise they're going to get really rotten reviews on Booking.com and Tripadvisor and if even just two people change plans to stay with this hotel group as a result they'll have lost more than they gained. I know it won't affect them greatly but even so more or less guaranteeing they'll lose trade seems a bit daft to me.

scottleag said:

eskbanker said:

If the hotel is abiding by its terms, both on changing non-refundable bookings and charging in advance, then you don't have any basis on which to seek any sort of recovery via your bank, and choosing to write bad reviews also seems inappropriate....

Why inappropriate? The hotel could have generated goodwill by changing the booking date by three days. They didn't have to take the money five months in advance. They chose to not do one but did do the other (after not responding to me) Seems to be to perfectly in order to let people know of these practices. 

It obviously depends on how you choose to phrase any reviews - there's no harm in highlighting that the hotel sticks to its published terms, but that's not what was implied by your threat/intention to leave "really rotten reviews" that would be designed to try to lose them business.

Pointing out that by sticking to their published terms they will take payment five months in advance, that they will only respond to correspondence by form emails and unsigned, that they will refuse requests to change a booking by three days even though they have plenty of accommodation. And you could omit the word 'threat' from your comment. Poor international hotel group. Threatened by me trying to lose them business.

I sincerely hope you never tick the wrong box in error and find yourself £200 down as a result.

On reflection, it probably is more applicable to go with the sort of reviews you evidently have in mind, as these are easily spotted and discounted by those looking for informative and rational feedback 

As are posts  on internet forums ostensibly designed to be on the side of the consumer

Gandalf644

scottleag said:

 them business.

I sincerely hope you never tick the wrong box in error and find yourself £200 down as a result.

To be honest, I am rather at a loss to understand your complaint, which is bordering on a rant.  

The hotel is sticking exactly to the terms and conditions you will have agreed to when you made the booking. They have every legal right to charge you as it is a non-refundable, non-changeable booking. They are the party who has done nothing wrong.

To put it succinctly, you made a !!!!!!-up and you are now expecting the hotel to sort out your own !!!!!! up.

Now, you are not unusual in making such a schoolboy error by booking non refundable rooms or flights etc – I am sure many (including me) have made the same or similar errors.

Simply shrug you shoulders, put on your big boys trousers and vow you will not make the same error again in the future. Yes, it maybe a bitter pill to swallow, but, by admission, it was your own error.

By threatening to leave negative reviews and making a ‘song and dance’ about it comes across as someone trying to blame someone else for their own error and a rather bad case of ‘sour grapes’.

Look forward to and then enjoy your holiday. I am sure this matter will blur into a very dim and distant memory in the overall context of your trip.

eskbanker

scottleag said:

eskbanker said:

scottleag said:

eskbanker said:

scottleag said:

They must realise they're going to get really rotten reviews on Booking.com and Tripadvisor and if even just two people change plans to stay with this hotel group as a result they'll have lost more than they gained. I know it won't affect them greatly but even so more or less guaranteeing they'll lose trade seems a bit daft to me.

scottleag said:

eskbanker said:

If the hotel is abiding by its terms, both on changing non-refundable bookings and charging in advance, then you don't have any basis on which to seek any sort of recovery via your bank, and choosing to write bad reviews also seems inappropriate....

Why inappropriate? The hotel could have generated goodwill by changing the booking date by three days. They didn't have to take the money five months in advance. They chose to not do one but did do the other (after not responding to me) Seems to be to perfectly in order to let people know of these practices. 

It obviously depends on how you choose to phrase any reviews - there's no harm in highlighting that the hotel sticks to its published terms, but that's not what was implied by your threat/intention to leave "really rotten reviews" that would be designed to try to lose them business.

Pointing out that by sticking to their published terms they will take payment five months in advance, that they will only respond to correspondence by form emails and unsigned, that they will refuse requests to change a booking by three days even though they have plenty of accommodation. And you could omit the word 'threat' from your comment. Poor international hotel group. Threatened by me trying to lose them business.

I sincerely hope you never tick the wrong box in error and find yourself £200 down as a result.

On reflection, it probably is more applicable to go with the sort of reviews you evidently have in mind, as these are easily spotted and discounted by those looking for informative and rational feedback 

As are posts  on internet forums ostensibly designed to be on the side of the consumer

The fact that you didn't like the answers doesn't negate the fact that they accurately explained why you don't have the consumer rights you hoped you might have against your bank (or the hotel) - you did say that "I would appreciate if anyone can  answer my query. Even if it is in the negative" but now seem reluctant to accept those answers....

scottleag

Gandalf644 said:

scottleag said:

 them business.

I sincerely hope you never tick the wrong box in error and find yourself £200 down as a result.

To be honest, I am rather at a loss to understand your complaint, which is bordering on a rant.  

The hotel is sticking exactly to the terms and conditions you will have agreed to when you made the booking. They have every legal right to charge you as it is a non-refundable, non-changeable booking. They are the party who has done nothing wrong.

To put it succinctly, you made a !!!!!!-up and you are now expecting the hotel to sort out your own !!!!!! up.

Now, you are not unusual in making such a schoolboy error by booking non refundable rooms or flights etc – I am sure many (including me) have made the same or similar errors.

Simply shrug you shoulders, put on your big boys trousers and vow you will not make the same error again in the future. Yes, it maybe a bitter pill to swallow, but, by admission, it was your own error.

By threatening to leave negative reviews and making a ‘song and dance’ about it comes across as someone trying to blame someone else for their own error and a rather bad case of ‘sour grapes’.

Look forward to and then enjoy your holiday. I am sure this matter will blur into a very dim and distant memory in the overall context of your trip.

Astonished by people on a forum supposedly set up to help the consumer automatically defending an international hotel group and not once considering it would be the easiest thing in the world to move the booking by three days. When I phoned Eurostar they simply changed the dates and issued me new tickets. As for it becoming a 'dim and distant memory,'or suggesting I should shrug my shoulfers maybe you can afford to 'shrug your shoulders' at the loss of a couple of hundred quid but as someone reliant on the state pension I can't.

Oh, and while you may consider me having a 'rant,' why not look closer to home to find condescending and insulting responses about 'big boy trousers). I posted in good faith looking for the legal position and even said I welcomed responses even if they were in the negative. Some people helpfully pointed out I wouldn't be able to get my money back if the hotel persisted in refusing to change the booking. Others gleefully pointed out my error (which I'd already admitted to in my initial post. You can decide for yourself which category you fall into. 

SacredStephan

Could I suggest that you contact the following consumer/legal/financial journalists who *might* take an interest in your story:

- Paul Lewis - BBC R4 Moneybox

- Claer Barrett - FT - Consumer Editor

- Dean Dunham - LBC radio - Consumer Hour (every Sunday night)

- Simon Calder - The Independent - Travel correspondent

It is possible that a well written email or tweet to the right person at the hotel chain, from a journalist with a platform, could help you move your booking dates without charge.

callum9999

scottleag said:

eDicky said:

scottleag said:

eDicky said:

scottleag said:

But for one of the hotels I had erred and accidentally booked a non-refundable, no change of date hotel. My fault. My laxness. My stupidity. Call it what you will.

Your freely made admission that it was your own mistake adds to my difficulty in understanding your attitude. 

Would you have preferred a less polite reply to your continued insistence? If there was any chance of a gesture of goodwill on the part of the hotel, it would have been given on your first approach to them.

Why would anyone pay a higher price for refundable/changeable terms, if it were not necessary..?

As I've said in another reply I said I would pay the difference. This was ignored in their replies.

Isn't it obvious that it doesn't work like that? If it did, everyone would book the cheaper option then pay the extra if they needed to make changes...

Which would make more money for the hotel

It absolutely wouldn't make more money for the hotel if everyone who wanted flexibility booked the non-flexible rate and then only paid the difference between that rate and the flexible rate in the event they need to make a change. I don't understand why so many people seem to genuinely believe they have a better grasp on how to run a major international business than the experts who have been working in the field for decades!

And just to set your expectations for your "don't cancel it so they can't rebook it" plan - it's not abnormal for hotels to overbook. If they suspect that you aren't going to show up, there's a pretty good chance they'll resell "your room" whether you cancel it or not.

What route/date were you trying to take? It sounds like you may have already rebooked the rest of the trip in which case this doesn't matter, but it seems unlikely there would be no other feasible connections between them for 3 days if money is as tight as you say it is. 

scottleag

SacredStephan said:

Could I suggest that you contact the following consumer/legal/financial journalists who *might* take an interest in your story:

- Paul Lewis - BBC R4 Moneybox

- Claer Barrett - FT - Consumer Editor

- Dean Dunham - LBC radio - Consumer Hour (every Sunday night)

- Simon Calder - The Independent - Travel correspondent

It is possible that a well written email or tweet to the right person at the hotel chain, from a journalist with a platform, could help you move your booking dates without charge.

Thank you very much for this. I'd been thinking along those lines. I appreciate your taking the time to give contact details. 

scottleag

callum9999 said:

scottleag said:

eDicky said:

scottleag said:

eDicky said:

scottleag said:

But for one of the hotels I had erred and accidentally booked a non-refundable, no change of date hotel. My fault. My laxness. My stupidity. Call it what you will.

Your freely made admission that it was your own mistake adds to my difficulty in understanding your attitude. 

Would you have preferred a less polite reply to your continued insistence? If there was any chance of a gesture of goodwill on the part of the hotel, it would have been given on your first approach to them.

Why would anyone pay a higher price for refundable/changeable terms, if it were not necessary..?

As I've said in another reply I said I would pay the difference. This was ignored in their replies.

Isn't it obvious that it doesn't work like that? If it did, everyone would book the cheaper option then pay the extra if they needed to make changes...

Which would make more money for the hotel

It absolutely wouldn't make more money for the hotel if everyone who wanted flexibility booked the non-flexible rate and then only paid the difference between that rate and the flexible rate in the event they need to make a change. I don't understand why so many people seem to genuinely believe they have a better grasp on how to run a major international business than the experts who have been working in the field for decades!

And just to set your expectations for your "don't cancel it so they can't rebook it" plan - it's not abnormal for hotels to overbook. If they suspect that you aren't going to show up, there's a pretty good chance they'll resell "your room" whether you cancel it or not.

What route/date were you trying to take? It sounds like you may have already rebooked the rest of the trip in which case this doesn't matter, but it seems unlikely there would be no other feasible connections between them for 3 days if money is as tight as you say it is. 

To paraphrase: I don't understand why so many people seem to genuinely believe they have a better grasp on travel on routes they don't know and railway timetables they haven't read than those who have been making the journey for decades. 

callum9999

scottleag said:

callum9999 said:

scottleag said:

eDicky said:

scottleag said:

eDicky said:

scottleag said:

But for one of the hotels I had erred and accidentally booked a non-refundable, no change of date hotel. My fault. My laxness. My stupidity. Call it what you will.

Your freely made admission that it was your own mistake adds to my difficulty in understanding your attitude. 

Would you have preferred a less polite reply to your continued insistence? If there was any chance of a gesture of goodwill on the part of the hotel, it would have been given on your first approach to them.

Why would anyone pay a higher price for refundable/changeable terms, if it were not necessary..?

As I've said in another reply I said I would pay the difference. This was ignored in their replies.

Isn't it obvious that it doesn't work like that? If it did, everyone would book the cheaper option then pay the extra if they needed to make changes...

Which would make more money for the hotel

It absolutely wouldn't make more money for the hotel if everyone who wanted flexibility booked the non-flexible rate and then only paid the difference between that rate and the flexible rate in the event they need to make a change. I don't understand why so many people seem to genuinely believe they have a better grasp on how to run a major international business than the experts who have been working in the field for decades!

And just to set your expectations for your "don't cancel it so they can't rebook it" plan - it's not abnormal for hotels to overbook. If they suspect that you aren't going to show up, there's a pretty good chance they'll resell "your room" whether you cancel it or not.

What route/date were you trying to take? It sounds like you may have already rebooked the rest of the trip in which case this doesn't matter, but it seems unlikely there would be no other feasible connections between them for 3 days if money is as tight as you say it is. 

To paraphrase: I don't understand why so many people seem to genuinely believe they have a better grasp on travel on routes they don't know and railway timetables they haven't read than those who have been making the journey for decades. 

And you're throwing a tantrum about other people being rude! Pot. Kettle...

I'll rephrase that. There IS public transport between France and Spain on those dates and you don't appear to be competent at making travel arrangements, so I was seeing if there was a feasible route you hadn't noticed...

Not really sure why I bothered in the first place, but I can no longer say I feel bad you've thrown your money away due to your own incompetence.