Is this good estate agents t&c?

kiwi07

eddddy said:

Just to clarify, there are 2 different 'types' of withdrawing...

1) The minimum contract term has finished, you haven't received an acceptable offer. ... and maybe you're withdrawing because:

- You want to move to a different estate agent
- You've decided not to sell after all


2) You've received an offer and accepted it. The buyer is "ready willing and able" to proceed. But you decide to withdraw... maybe because:

- You've decided not to sell after all


If it's a 'type 2 withdrawal', an agent with a "ready wiling and able buyer" clause will normally expect you to pay their full selling fee.  This is what agent 3 is saying (or trying to say in a badly worded clause)

The problem is deciding whether a buyer really is "ready wiling and able" - if/when you withdraw.

If it's a 'type 1 withdrawal' a lower withdrawal fee (or no withdrawal fee) is due.

Thanks for the clarification. Under these terms looks like 3d agent is the agent not worth dealing with at all...

Herzlos

saajan_12 said:

kiwi07 said:

Notwithstanding the aforementioned,  where the property is withdrawn from the market or our agency where we have introduced a purchaser ready, willing and able to proceed and a survey has been undertaken,  then our charges will represent a charge of £600 including vat. The account for this will be due for payment within 7 days of you receiving it. The recovery of our disbursement costs and charges are referred to above is without prejudice to our right to claim commission if the circumstances set out in clause 1 above apply  

This is problematic.. they're sneaking in penalties conditional on a RWA buyer, which is very different to a sole agency contract. The purchase could fall through for 101 other reasons and while you wouldn't owe the full fee, £600 is still steep for not actually finding a successful buyer.

It's only if you withdraw from the market though. So the £600 charge would only apply if you had a likely sale and then decided not to sell.

If you have a buyer that falls through, you stay on the market and the 1% would apply when it sold or no fee would apply if you later withdrew from the market.


I suspect that the clause is a mix of trying to prevent them losing out if you leave the market to sell privately to the buyer, or just wasting their time. Their job is to get your to the RWA buyer stage and hand over to solicitors to do the actual sale, so they'll want paid whether or not you continue.

kiwi07

Herzlos said:

saajan_12 said:

kiwi07 said:

Notwithstanding the aforementioned,  where the property is withdrawn from the market or our agency where we have introduced a purchaser ready, willing and able to proceed and a survey has been undertaken,  then our charges will represent a charge of £600 including vat. The account for this will be due for payment within 7 days of you receiving it. The recovery of our disbursement costs and charges are referred to above is without prejudice to our right to claim commission if the circumstances set out in clause 1 above apply  

This is problematic.. they're sneaking in penalties conditional on a RWA buyer, which is very different to a sole agency contract. The purchase could fall through for 101 other reasons and while you wouldn't owe the full fee, £600 is still steep for not actually finding a successful buyer.

It's only if you withdraw from the market though. So the £600 charge would only apply if you had a likely sale and then decided not to sell.

If you have a buyer that falls through, you stay on the market and the 1% would apply when it sold or no fee would apply if you later withdrew from the market.


I suspect that the clause is a mix of trying to prevent them losing out if you leave the market to sell privately to the buyer, or just wasting their time. Their job is to get your to the RWA buyer stage and hand over to solicitors to do the actual sale, so they'll want paid whether or not you continue.

I still think charging £600 is a lot.

eddddy

kiwi07 said:

I still think charging £600 is a lot.

I read it as £600 being payable to agent 1 if you withdraw when there is a "ready willing and able buyer".

Whereas, agent 3 wants their full fee, if you withdraw when there is a "ready willing and able buyer".

So £600 is cheaper.

Agent 2 doesn't seem to mention anything about a "ready willing and able buyer".


You could try negotiating with agent 2 over their commission fee. For example saying "Agent 1 and agent 3 only charge 1% commission. I'll go with you if you price match them."

kiwi07

eddddy said:

kiwi07 said:

I still think charging £600 is a lot.

I read it as £600 being payable to agent 1 if you withdraw when there is a "ready willing and able buyer".

Whereas, agent 3 wants their full fee, if you withdraw when there is a "ready willing and able buyer".

So £600 is cheaper.

Agent 2 doesn't seem to mention anything about a "ready willing and able buyer".


You could try negotiating with agent 2 over their commission fee. For example saying "Agent 1 and agent 3 only charge 1% commission. I'll go with you if you price match them."

Thanks, I did ask 2nd agent  if they can lower their fee but they refused to do so. (Didn't mention the other two offering 1% plus vat) but the 2nd agent was pretty solid in their £ 2000 plus vat or 1.5 % + vat. 

kiwi07

N4 agent :
Selling fees:  1% + vat, or £1500 + vat.  "You will be liable to pay our fee, in the addition to any other Costs or charges agreed, if at any time contracts for the sale of the property exchanged with a purchaser introduced by us during our agency period, or with whom we have had negotiations about your property. Or if sole agency is selected, with a purchaser introduced by any other agent or person. In the unlikely event that a sale is agreed and then fails through, the inactive period will be Marketing Hiatus. Our Exclusive Period will go on hold and resume when active marketing restarts. Sole agency. We will act as your Sole Agent for a minimum Exclusive Period of 12 weeks and will continue thereafter unless either party gives 14 days written notice after it has elapsed. No other agent may be appointed,  but if one is, you will create a dual fee liability. 
Immediate start, withdrawal, charges and termination. 0-14 days from instruction on any agency type. If you have instructed us to commence marketing immediately and then cancel the contract within the first 14 days (if the "Cooling Off Period " cancellation  rules are applicable) you will be liable to a withdrawal free calculated on the amount of work and the services which we have provided during the period up the point of cancellation, or a fixed figure, if it is specified overleaf. If a buyer introduced by us during this Cooling Off Period goes on to purchase your property,  a full fee is payable as explained under Fee Entitlement and Ongoing Liability.  From day 15 of the instruction you can cancel the contract after any specific Exclusive Period has elapsed, with no penalty, by giving notice, the period of which is noted overleaf. 
Definition of introduction and fee Entitlement. 
For the purpose of this specific agreement,  "Introduction" means that we the Agent introduced a potential purchaser to you the Seller,  both natural persons. The commission fee will be earned by us if we introduce directly or indirectly a person to you, the seller, who goes on to contract to purchase the property during the period of the contract. As we the Agent will be advertising and promoting the property through publicity available media at our expense and risk, even if we the Agents and our representatives are not physically present,  and our and your property are identified by published information it is agreed that an " introduction " has been made by us. For the avoidance of doubt it does not mean that we will introduce the purchaser to the sale, but that we will introduce them to you and your property.  
Ongoing liability.
If you withdraw your property from sale, unsold,  you may have an ongoing fee liability to us. If you terminate our agreement and then sell your property to a buyer first introduced to you by us who is re-introduced via another agent within 6 months of our agreement ending a full fee is payable. If the introduction is more that 6 months after termination no fee is payable. If you terminate our agreement and then sell your property privately to a buyer first introduced to you by us within 2 years of this agreement ending a full fee is payable.  
Interested parties.
If any individual or parties have shown interest in purchasing the property prior to this agreement,  privately or through another agent we will be entitled to our fees if we "introduce " the buyers either directly or indirectly, after seeing a for sale board or identifying the property from published information on the internet.  To avoid future disputes,  it is therefore important that you tell us now. Even if you declare an " interested party" it may be that the party has since lost interest. If we are able to revive that interest,  we will be entitled to commission.  
Payment 
Our fee and any additional costs agreed, becomes liable when we find you a buyer and Contracts are Exchanged. Our fees are due on Completion or 4 weeks after Exchange of Contracts whichever is sooner." 

Is this 4th agent sounds reasonable? Has this one "Ready, willing and able purchaser" rule? 

eddddy

kiwi07 said:

Is this 4th agent sounds reasonable? Has this one "Ready, willing and able purchaser" rule? 

They've had some 'clever' lawyers working on that contract. 

In 2008, the Appeal Court ruled on what the word "introduction" meant.

This estate agent is attempting to get round that court ruling by giving their own definition of "introduction". That's not ideal. The estate agent's definition of "introduction" could cause arguments later.

But on the other hand, there doesn't seem to be a withdrawal fee - or a "ready, willing and able buyer" clause, so it sounds better than the other t&cs you posted.

kiwi07

Agent 5. Sole agency agreement. Commission 0.75% plus vat of the selling price at which contracts are exchanged. Agent charges a minimum fee £999 not including vat.
Withdrawal charges. If the agreement is terminated by the client or the property is sold other than in circumstances entitled the agent to a fee as stated in these terms and conditions, the client will pay to the agent is withdrawal charge of £ ___ including vat plus any agreed marketing charges. The withdrawal charge will be paid by the client within 14 days of withdrawal. This does not effect the clients right to withdraw or withhold payment where the agent has failed in its obligations and responsibilities under this agreement.
Settlement of fees
Commission fees become due at exchange of contracts or (if there is no contract) upon completion of the sale. 
Ready, willing and able buyer 
A buyer is a ready willing and able buyer if he is prepared and is in a position to exchange unconditional contracts for the purchase of the property. The client will be liable to pay commission to the agent in addition to any other costs or charges agreed, if such a buyer is introduced by the agent in accordance with your instructions and this must be paid even if you subsequently withdraw and contracts for sale are not exchanged, irrespective of the reasons. (Commission 50% of asking price). 
Double commission warning.
The client may be liable to pay agency fees to more than one agent if: The client has previously instructed another agent to sell the same property on a sole agency, joint sole agency, multiple agency or a sole selling rights basis; or The client instructs another agent or after the period of the agents sole agency or joint sole agency. 
Sole agency/joint sole agency/ liability to pay commission 
Where the agent acts on the clients behalf as sole agent /joint agent, the client will be liable to pay remuneration to the sole agent /joint sole agent , in the addition to sny other costs or charges agreed, if at any time unconditional contracts for the sale of the property are exchanged. With a buyer introduced by the agent during the period of the agents sole /joint sole agency or with whom the agent had negotiations about the property during that period or, 
With a buyer introduced by another agent during that period. The agent will be entitled to a commission fee if the client terminates this agreement and either;
A memorandum of sale is issued by another agent to a buyer that the agent has introduced within 6 months of the date this agreement ended and where a subsequent exchange of contracts takes place, or if no other estate agent is involved, an exchange of contracts takes place within 2 years of the date this agreement ended. Reference above to the exchange of contracts shall be deemed to include completion of a sale of the property where no contacts are exchanged. 
Termination of agency. 
Either party can terminate this agreement by giving not less than 21 days notice to the other in writing to expire at the end of or after the last day of the minimum period. 


This agent offers the lowest sale fee but on the other hand are their T&Cs are good? 

kiwi07

eddddy said:

Just to clarify, there are 2 different 'types' of withdrawing...

1) The minimum contract term has finished, you haven't received an acceptable offer. ... and maybe you're withdrawing because:

- You want to move to a different estate agent
- You've decided not to sell after all


2) You've received an offer and accepted it. The buyer is "ready willing and able" to proceed. But you decide to withdraw... maybe because:

- You've decided not to sell after all


If it's a 'type 2 withdrawal', an agent with a "ready wiling and able buyer" clause will normally expect you to pay their full selling fee.  This is what agent 3 is saying (or trying to say in a badly worded clause)

The problem is deciding whether a buyer really is "ready wiling and able" - if/when you withdraw.

If it's a 'type 1 withdrawal' a lower withdrawal fee (or no withdrawal fee) is due.

So looks like all those agents have withdrawal fee. It's just the 2nd agent doesn't use "ready, willing and able" wording but there is the still a penalty to pay if withdrawing from the sale but significantly cheaper than others £250 plus vat;  3d agent's £600 withdrawing from the sale fee and 3ds which is full amount of asking price.