CEL DCB Legal court claim

Pcngone

Umkomaas said:

Pcngone said:

Umkomaas said:

Does your friend have written confirmation from the retail manager that he has instructed CEL to cancel the PCN?  If not, he needs to get that urgently as that will form part of his evidence submission with his Witness Statement. 

As this is now at the business end of things, your friend himself should be here on the forum, not you passing on messages back and to. Just so risky. Chinese whispers. 

Hi umko, he can get this information upon request and I will tell him to do this. Unfortunately my friends not fluent in English so it would be hard for him to be on here without assistance. 

I'd make sure he was instantly contactable when we're trying to get clarification on points that will emerge as this progresses. We are dealing with dozens of cases (some complicated) every hour, so if responses aren't forthcoming quickly, the case slips down the forum and details in our minds (certainly mine) get hazier as time elapses. 

Absolutely and tbf I am invested myself as I’m curious to see how this process works out!

Pcngone

Ok guys quick update, AOS has been completed and now to draft up the defence. I will update here with a request to you guys’ scrutiny 

Pcngone

Also just out of curiosity, can I ask why we do not start the defence on the MCOL website and instead send a pdf via email?

KeithP

Pcngone said:

Also just out of curiosity, can I ask why we do not start the defence on the MCOL website and instead send a pdf via email?

A number of reasons...

1. there isn't enough room in the MCOL box for all that you want to say,
2. MCOL allegedly destroys the formatting thus presenting the reader, e.g. the judge, with a garbled mess.

This is explained in a link from the second post of the NEWBIES thread.

Coupon-mad

Pcngone said:

Also just out of curiosity, can I ask why we do not start the defence on the MCOL website and instead send a pdf via email?

This is already answered in the NEWBIES thread section IMPORTANT: KNOW WHAT HAPPENS WHEN.

As for the defence, just copy one from this week/last week. Read half a dozen DCB Legal claim threads.

These cases are so generic that we don't even have to scrutinise most defences. All you need to do is read other DCB Claim threads.

Le_Kirk

Pcngone said:

Ok guys quick update, AOS has been completed and now to draft up the defence. I will update here with a request to you guys’ scrutiny 

But please just show us your paragraphs #2 & #3 or any that you add.  We do not need to see the template; we know it is right!

Coupon-mad

Pcngone said:

the issue date is 27 nov 2024

Generic claim. Generic defence will do.

DCB Legal claims (non-ParkingEye case): little or no discussion of the defence is needed.

Copy any other one that denies the POC paragraph by paragraph. Read some.

The Defendant can copy others you see by skim-reading down page one or two of the forum right now.  See my signature for how to click straight to page one in a nano-second.

I hate providing links. It stops new posters browsing the forum which is a bad thing.

But in the spirit of the Season, here's one but please look around and read more (saves us from having to reply with the same stuff on thread after thread):

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81139187/#Comment_81139187

That shows you some 'deny the POC' wording to include in your para 3. Just add another line about the circumstances.  And if course use the Template Defence but we don't want to be shown it ... please!

Nothing much about the detail is needed except if there's something specific like a double dip or a broken pay & display machine.  Otherwise the generic para 3 is fine (within the full Template Defence).

Read a few cases like it. We have hundreds.

If you've added something unusual / case specific them we'll take a quick look if you wish.

Then follow the first 12 steps in the Template Defence thread so that you don't need to ask about the DQ questions or the laughable Mediation phone call.  Show your friend the 12 steps so they don't miss anything. They can even nominate you to take the Mediation call for them.

We are only needed again at WS & evidence stage next year.

Pcngone

Hi guys, 

Firstly thanks for your invaluable help @Coupon-mad @KeithP @Le_Kirk and anyone else

So i have drafted up my defence using the template and suited para 2 and 3 as follows:

2. The facts in this defence come from the Defendant's own knowledge and honest belief.  Conversely, the Claimant sets out a cut-and-paste incoherent and sparse statement of case. The POC appear to be in breach of CPR 16.4, 16PD3 and 16PD7, and fail to "state all facts necessary for the purpose of formulating a complete cause of action". The Defendant is unable, on the basis of the POC, to understand with certainty what case, allegation(s) and what heads of cost are being pursued, making it difficult to respond. However, the vehicle is recognised and it is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper and driver.

3. Referring to the POC: paragraph 1 is denied. The Defendant is not indebted to the Claimant. Paragraph 2 is denied. No PCN was "issued on 16/07/2023" (the date of the alleged visit).  Whilst the Defendant is the registered keeper and driver, paragraphs 3 and 4 are denied. The Defendant is not liable and has seen no evidence of a breach of prominent terms.  The quantum is hugely exaggerated (no PCN can be £170 on private land) and there were no damages incurred whatsoever. The Claimant is put to strict proof of all of their allegations.

3.1. The defendant is a weekly visitor of the retail store for which the Claimant is acting on behalf of and the defendant can provide written confirmation from the stores’ manager to refute the alleged breach upon request. The defendant states the store manager has already attempted to contact Civil Enforcement LTD to have the PCN in question dismissed but seems to have been ignored. The defendant also testifies that at any point visiting the retail store, the defendant has never exceeded the maximum stay allowance.

3.2 The defendant was issued with a similar PCN for the same alleged breach a few months after the PCN in question to which the defendant contacted the store manager and subsequently had the PCN dismissed.

In regards to point 3.1 should  i get a signed letter from the manager and attach this to the defence? will this have any standing as they may assume i forged the letter?

In regards to point 3.2 this was in dec 2023 (5 months after the pcn which is being currently refuted) and the PCN NTK was received on 4/1/24. After my friend contacted the store manager, the manager spoke to civil enforcement ltd over the telephone and supposedly had this dismissed. There was no confirmation email or letter to state this was the case but since this NTK no subsequent letters have been received which leads my friend to believe this pcn was dismissed. It seems to me there is a technical issue with Civil enforecemnt ltd cameras at this site as from my friend has said, according to the manager the breach is always the same that people are coming into store to argue about

Also before is send the defence to ClaimResponses.CNBC@justice.gov.uk i just wanted to ask, as stated by @Coupon-mad that my friend can nominate me to take the mediation call, how does he do this? or should i not take the call for him and just tell my friend to waste the mediators time with his poor english HA, but makesure he denies everything.

Gr1pr

I would change it to say that evidence will be provided to the court at the hearing stage, not if requested 

I would obtain that signed and dated witness statement asap 

No exhibits are submitted with the textual ONLY defence, save the evidence for your WS bundle next year 

I suggest that you change your thread title to reflect the new situation , to

CEL DCB Legal court claim. ( Or something similar. )

Study the 12 steps in the defence template sticky thread in announcements, its simple, not paying a penny, no agreement, no compromise, want it to Go to court for a judgment by the judge, 5 minutes call

Pcngone

Gr1pr said:

I would change it to say that evidence will be provided to the court at the hearing stage, not if requested 

I would obtain that signed and dated witness statement asap 

No exhibits are submitted with the textual ONLY defence, save the evidence for your WS bundle next year 

I suggest that you change your thread title to reflect the new situation , to

CEL DCB Legal court claim. ( Or something similar. )

Study the 12 steps in the defence template sticky thread in announcements, its simple, not paying a penny, no agreement, no compromise, want it to Go to court for a judgment by the judge, 5 minutes call

Perfect I shall do this, I will draft up a letter for my friend to get signed and dated by the store manger in due course. 

Is 3.2 worth keeping in to show as part of the defence it’s happened before but has been dismissed?