Boundary Issue! New neighbour wants to move their fence!

user1977

MrBounce said:

user1977 said:

Well I agree that's a straight line.

Yes, however, the physical boundaries have never been like that. 

Never? The Ordnance Survey disagreed whenever they surveyed the base map for that title plan, as that's showing a straight fence or wall along the whole boundary.

Others are likely to know more than me about the applicable law for this sort of historic boundary shift.

SootySweep1

Hi
What sort of trees were they ? How big were they ?
Just wondering if that could give you an idea of how long that fence / boundary has been in place & that land has been part of your garden.

MrBounce

SootySweep1 said:

Hi
What sort of trees were they ? How big were they ?
Just wondering if that could give you an idea of how long that fence / boundary has been in place & that land has been part of your garden.

Some sort of purple leaf plum tree... 

Looking at Google earth 1999 trees were there..

Grumpy_chap

MrBounce said:

This is their title plan with red line, mine is the one next to it. 

To me, that looks as though the boundary is a few inches from the house wall and runs straight.
I'd suggest, the few inches are just enough to allow a fence to be erected (so 4" or 6") along the outside of the building and straight all the way along.

MrBounce

Grumpy_chap said:

MrBounce said:

This is their title plan with red line, mine is the one next to it. 

To me, that looks as though the boundary is a few inches from the house wall and runs straight.
I'd suggest, the few inches are just enough to allow a fence to be erected (so 4" or 6") along the outside of the building and straight all the way along.

They are looking to erect a fence more than 6 inchs away from their building, 55-60cm or more... So at least 23 inches...

I appreciate what the boundary looks like... I am thinking... The previous owner who was there for 50-60 years, erected that fence in that position... Therefore that is where the boundary at that part lies...

Obviously, if the change in position was a recent thing, I would understand things could be different.. 

35har1old

MrBounce said:

Brie said:

Yes boundaries aren't always a straight line. 

But if you think they are trying to erect a fence on your property you can say no.  Also if they are going to erect a fence on their property but do it by accessing your property you can also say no.  

You could of course erect your own "fence" by putting a string up between posts to show where you believe the boundary to be.  That might help they visualise better where their fence might go.  

I think that if you have been using a path that is right on the boundary (so both yours and theirs) for a particularly long time that they won't be allowed to block that as it may be designated as a right of way.  This is the sort of thing that you might want to check with a friendly solicitor or legal type - maybe accessed free via your house/car insurance legal cover?

Hopefully you can come to some agreement.

Yes, we will be saying no, but the new neighbours seem like the type just to do what they want.. 

Currently we are having renovation works etc hence the mess. The worry is, they may do something when we are not their. For example they want to cut the trees down in their garden, but they need access through our property to do it. If we give consent, they will need to take their fence down to do it. The other worry is if they put that or a new fence in a different position, to give them more garden, by taking some of ours... 

Could they take the fence down and not replace it?

SootySweep1

Can you come to an agreement that works for both of you ?

Long term do you want to get on with your neighbours? 

I'm  no solicitor but they may be able to get a court to rule that the bit of land is part of their garden but you can evidence that the current fence has been the boundary for a long time and as such isn't that the boundary ? I think it's also logical to presume that a boundary would be erected taking into consideration such things as trees if they were there when the houses were built

I'd investigate how long a piece of land needs to appear to be "part" of your garden before it becomes part of your garden. I think it's 12 years. I think it's called adverse possession? 

However if you start involving surveyors & solicitors it will become expensive very quickly so can you come to an agreement that works for both of you that may be the cheapest option.

zaax

Speak to a solicitor. Do you have legal help on Car / House / union / club card?? 

MrBounce

35har1old said:

MrBounce said:

Brie said:

Yes boundaries aren't always a straight line. 

But if you think they are trying to erect a fence on your property you can say no.  Also if they are going to erect a fence on their property but do it by accessing your property you can also say no.  

You could of course erect your own "fence" by putting a string up between posts to show where you believe the boundary to be.  That might help they visualise better where their fence might go.  

I think that if you have been using a path that is right on the boundary (so both yours and theirs) for a particularly long time that they won't be allowed to block that as it may be designated as a right of way.  This is the sort of thing that you might want to check with a friendly solicitor or legal type - maybe accessed free via your house/car insurance legal cover?

Hopefully you can come to some agreement.

Yes, we will be saying no, but the new neighbours seem like the type just to do what they want.. 

Currently we are having renovation works etc hence the mess. The worry is, they may do something when we are not their. For example they want to cut the trees down in their garden, but they need access through our property to do it. If we give consent, they will need to take their fence down to do it. The other worry is if they put that or a new fence in a different position, to give them more garden, by taking some of ours... 

Could they take the fence down and not replace it?

Yes they could... But to get machinery in to cut trees down, they require us to provide access through out garden, as they have no access to their garden from their front, as their house has been extended both sides, so they can only currently access their garden by going through their house, or through their garage... 

MrBounce

SootySweep1 said:

Can you come to an agreement that works for both of you ?

Long term do you want to get on with your neighbours? 

I'm  no solicitor but they may be able to get a court to rule that the bit of land is part of their garden but you can evidence that the current fence has been the boundary for a long time and as such isn't that the boundary ? I think it's also logical to presume that a boundary would be erected taking into consideration such things as trees if they were there when the houses were built

I'd investigate how long a piece of land needs to appear to be "part" of your garden before it becomes part of your garden. I think it's 12 years. I think it's called adverse possession? 

However if you start involving surveyors & solicitors it will become expensive very quickly so can you come to an agreement that works for both of you that may be the cheapest option.

Yes long term getting on with the neighbours is ideal scenario... Generally I am easy going.. A bit to easy going most of the time...but this situation has caused unnecessary stress..

I think you are right in re. 12 year rule... This has been much much longer!

Solicitors etc will become costly... But ultimately there is a benefit of this piece for the both of us... I.e keeps a reasonable space for our access to the garden..For them gives them some access to the garden from the outside, instead of going through their house...

It's a shame, as the other people that were looking to buy, were going to knock the bit of the extension that leads to their conservatory down (the wall you can see from our side)... To give them external access to the garden... Which the most common sense thing to do!