Final Salary Pension transfer

Silverfox1967

I'm currently planning my retirement for around 14 months time and have a number of workplace pensions. One of these is a DB scheme (Final Salary), however the value of this is not really large as it was from when i was with a company in my early days and is based on a relatively low salary.
I'm looking at consolidating a number of my pensions and wish to transfer this out to the others.
The value that i will receive each month from this on the latest projection is not large, just a couple of hundred pounds and all i keep getting told is that this is guaranteed for life.
All well and good, but as no-one can confirm how long i am going to live for, this is not where i wish my funds to be invested. The next point that gets made, is that if i die, my dependent will get a reduced value for the rest of their life.
Again all well and good, but no-one ever mentions that what if my dependent dies before me!
The answer is that the 'pot' that i have just goes back to the main fund, benefitting the scheme and not my children (who are over the age of 23 and will not benefit).
Therefore i wish to transfer my DB scheme into my other funds, to ensure that in the future my dependents and spouse benefit from the funds.
I've explained this to my advisor and he understands my concerns. He has passed on my wishes to an other company who can facilitate this, but they seem to be acting like they have 'god-like' control over my funds. 
In addition to this, they wish to charge me £4k for receiving full advice from them. 
My main gripe is that i do not wish to have full advice, as after working for 30 years as an accountant, I have a good understanding of my desires and wishes, along with the potential risks involved if a fund does not perform well - i will be looking at investing in something that is a cautious risk, so potentially maximising my future returns.
2 questions spring to mind immediately, 
1). Has anyone else encountered this opposition to their wishes?
2). Is the fee being quoted a fair one, based upon the fact that i already know what i want to do and am fully aware of any potential risks in investments?
Thanks

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Silverfox1967 said:

I'm currently planning my retirement for around 14 months time and have a number of workplace pensions. One of these is a DB scheme (Final Salary), however the value of this is not really large as it was from when i was with a company in my early days and is based on a relatively low salary.
I'm looking at consolidating a number of my pensions and wish to transfer this out to the others.
The value that i will receive each month from this on the latest projection is not large, just a couple of hundred pounds and all i keep getting told is that this is guaranteed for life.
All well and good, but as no-one can confirm how long i am going to live for, this is not where i wish my funds to be invested. The next point that gets made, is that if i die, my dependent will get a reduced value for the rest of their life.
Again all well and good, but no-one ever mentions that what if my dependent dies before me!
The answer is that the 'pot' that i have just goes back to the main fund, benefitting the scheme and not my children (who are over the age of 23 and will not benefit).
Therefore i wish to transfer my DB scheme into my other funds, to ensure that in the future my dependents and spouse benefit from the funds.
I've explained this to my advisor and he understands my concerns. He has passed on my wishes to an other company who can facilitate this, but they seem to be acting like they have 'god-like' control over my funds. 
In addition to this, they wish to charge me £4k for receiving full advice from them. 
My main gripe is that i do not wish to have full advice, as after working for 30 years as an accountant, I have a good understanding of my desires and wishes, along with the potential risks involved if a fund does not perform well - i will be looking at investing in something that is a cautious risk, so potentially maximising my future returns.
2 questions spring to mind immediately, 
1). Has anyone else encountered this opposition to their wishes?
2). Is the fee being quoted a fair one, based upon the fact that i already know what i want to do and am fully aware of any potential risks in investments?
Thanks

You seem to have misunderstood what a final salary pension is.

You don't have a "pot" and there are no funds invested for you.

Do you have an upto date value, not the amount you had earned when this pension was deferred but what it would pay today?

Is there an automatic PCLS?

Is the spouse pension 50%?

What is the annual revaluation rate used for this scheme?

How much are they offering you to get you off their books and avoid having to pay you the pension you are entitled to?

MarkCarnage

It may not seem much to you, but at about £2,500 p.a. the transfer value is likely to exceed the £30,000 threshold at which independent advice is mandatory. 
There are lots of threads on this subject on here. Suggest you read some of them. Less so recently, as transfer values have fallen and the hurdles to transferring have become higher. 
The fee is not out of line with the market. You must realise that this is a high risk advice activity for advisers, and the cost reflects this (principally the cost of their PI). The chances are that unless there are powerful reasons to recommend a transfer, that the advice will be not to transfer anyway. 

Silverfox1967

Dazed and confused,
thanks for the response, however I am fully aware of what a DB scheme is.
Yes i have an upto date vale and i would not disclose this in an open forum. My advisor knows what this value is, but thanks for you response anyway.

Mark Carnage
Thanks for the info with regards to fees, i was wanting to ensure that what i have been quoted is in line with industry averages.
The value has fallen since my last offer 6 years ago when the company was wanting to buy people out of the scheme, however i was not in a position to retire at that point. The main reasons for wanting to transfer are that i want control over all of my funds and also i wish to ensure that my dependents have something for the future.

Cobbler_tone

The quotes I received for full advice were between £9-12k, so £4.5k sounds pretty reasonable. That said, I can get full advice as a taxable benefit on £1,450 provided via the company. Ex-employees can get the advice for a £1,450 cash fee. So I would check if you have any background access to the advice.
As it will have a transfer value of over £30k you'll have to stump up or leave it where it is.

The thing that always makes me chuckle is someone always immediately says "there is no pot" with a DB pension. There is no issue with a transfer value being referred to as a 'pot' and in fact my scheme documentation uses the term 'pot' twice. There are a pot of assets worth £1b in the scheme that covers my pension. 

Silverfox1967

Cobbler_tone
Thanks for your info, most helpful and i will follow up to see is there is any ex-employee advice.
The value in question is over £30k in my 'pot', and as i've mentioned previously my primary reasons for wanting to move are control of my funds and providing for dependents, something which i don't feel the DB scheme provides me with.
In the last newsletter i received from the company, the overall fund value was in deficit and had been for a period of time, something else which concerns me.

xylophone

however i was not in a position to retire at that point.

Assuming that you mean that you were not ready to give up work at that point, this would not have prevented your transfer out to another registered pension scheme.

However, then as now, if the value of your "safeguarded benefits" 

 (see https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/pension-benefits-with-a-guarantee-and-the-advice-requirement/pension-benefits-with-a-guarantee-and-the-advice-requirement) 

was in excess of £30,000, advice from an appropriately qualified adviser was required.

https://www.mandg.com/wealth/adviser-services/tech-matters/pensions/pension-transfers/pension-transfers-conversions#:~:text=From October 2021 FCA requires,or check pension transfer advice.

Cobbler_tone

Silverfox1967 said:

Cobbler_tone
Thanks for your info, most helpful and i will follow up to see is there is any ex-employee advice.
The value in question is over £30k in my 'pot', and as i've mentioned previously my primary reasons for wanting to move are control of my funds and providing for dependents, something which i don't feel the DB scheme provides me with.
In the last newsletter i received from the company, the overall fund value was in deficit and had been for a period of time, something else which concerns me.

Ours was in a big deficit, hence why it closed to new members in 2010 and altogether in 2021. Now the membership are dropping off (like flies!) and the business invested, it has a surplus.

I am sure others can share the protection these funds have nowadays. I'd imagine your money is pretty safe.
Worth noting that the transfer values are still not very good but it sounds as though you have looked at the relationship to the annual figures and made your mind up.

Silverfox1967

Cobbler_tone said:

Silverfox1967 said:

Cobbler_tone
Thanks for your info, most helpful and i will follow up to see is there is any ex-employee advice.
The value in question is over £30k in my 'pot', and as i've mentioned previously my primary reasons for wanting to move are control of my funds and providing for dependents, something which i don't feel the DB scheme provides me with.
In the last newsletter i received from the company, the overall fund value was in deficit and had been for a period of time, something else which concerns me.

Ours was in a big deficit, hence why it closed to new members in 2010 and altogether in 2021. Now the membership are dropping off (like flies!) and the business invested, it has a surplus.

I am sure others can share the protection these funds have nowadays. I'd imagine your money is pretty safe.
Worth noting that the transfer values are still not very good but it sounds as though you have looked at the relationship to the annual figures and made your mind up.

Yes the transfer value has fallen since they made the original offer to buy members out of the scheme, however at that time i wasn't ready for retirement, so asked around and was advised to leave it - one of the comments at the time was "it'll be worth more in the future!! ".
I'm clear in my mind of what i want to do and am fully aware of the risks, however i feel that there are more benefits to be had in the long-term.
Even with the £4k fees being quoted, I think that i should recover this within the first year of transfer, so that once i come to finally finish in 14 months time, my fund will be in the same position as at today.
Thanks for your information, most helpful.

daveyjp

"The main reasons for wanting to transfer are that i want control over all of my funds and also i wish to ensure that my dependents have something for the future."

I'd change this statement to a question.

How do I achieve control over all my funds and ensure dependents have something for the future whilst also keeping the DB pension? 

One obvious approach is to invest the DB income as you have no intention of spending it.

molerat

Even with a positive result from the advice you may have difficulty finding a provider of your choosing that will actually take the transfer, they are all running scared of the next "mis-sale" scandal.  You will likely need to move it to a stakeholder first, as they cannot refuse it, then to your choice of provider.