How to best agree a completion date (sensitive sale)?

annetheman

Edit: we have a date! Thanks for suggestions...

Original post:
Hi all,

Does anyone have any advice on how to best agree a completion date in a sensitive probate sale?

My offer was accepted on a probate sale on 28th October (after a LONG journey...). I broke the chain in a prior sale and was ready to go with solicitor/mortgage offer already at hand etc. We started at a fast pace.

The house is empty (it was an investment property owned in the sole name of the deceased) and the seller's wife and daughter have recently put the few belongings into boxes and asked to leave the big furniture in the TA10. I agreed.

Less than 1 month after offer accepted, we are now ready to exchange - solicitors have emailed on both sides asking for a completion date, ready for authority to exchange this week. In anticipation, I booked a pre-exchange visit on Saturday 23rd November - only 15 minutes, measuring up and making sure it is still in the condition it was.

This is where the amazingly fast and smooth progress ground to a halt -- EA said the seller went "mental" at her for letting me have a pre-exchange visit on Saturday 23rd November without notifying them (I didn't know they didn't know) and she is "treading on eggshells" with them since, so it was difficult to negotiate completion dates.

I had proposed 5th December, and seller's solicitor advised she said it's too soon - she now wants some time after 18th December (NB: my previous suggestion of 20th or thereabouts was refused....). I then asked via solicitor if we might meet in the middle on 12th or 13th December.

Seller has not spoken to anyone for 4 days now and has shut down (their solicitor has been in touch, EA has been in touch)... 

I'm not really sure how to react because I too lost a parent and empathise with how it must feel to be - as they might perceive it - "pushed" into completing after someone "violated" their space without your permission. I told the EA I understand the emotional sensitivity and don't want to push but we need to agree a date or I will be charged £175 if exchange and completion are within 7 days of each other...

Again, not what seller will want to think about when grieving. But I get the impression from EA every single thing about the sale, my requests and any contact from the EA is being met with emotional response and things are breaking down.

What would you do?

mebu60

Assuming the seller still wants to sell the property they'd have a lot more to get emotional about if you withdrew. I would get the EA to warn the seller that is becoming a very real prospect and that they need to instruct their conveyancer to agree exchange and completion dates with your conveyancer asap. You could set a deadline e.g. end of next week for the dates to be agreed but you would have to be prepared to walk away (at least initially). 

user1977

annetheman said:

we need to agree a date or I will be charged £175 if exchange and completion are within 7 days of each other...

I presume because you’ve chosen a solicitor who has that within their ludicrous fee tariff? That’s on you, I’m afraid. In any event, are you going to walk away over £175?

eddddy

Normally, the EA would be the best person to do this.

They'll probably have met the wife several times, been shown round the house by the wife, discussed offers with the wife, etc.

And an EA generally has more time to have a gentle, friendly chat on the phone. A solicitor might want to be more brief and business-like in an email or call.

But it sounds like the wife is super angry with the EA.

Maybe suggest to the EA that an colleague of the EA phones - and opens with something like "I'm really sorry that my colleague messed up so badly by not telling you about the visit"... and let the wife vent their anger for a while.

annetheman

eddddy said:

Normally, the EA would be the best person to do this.

They'll probably have met the wife several times, been shown round the house by the wife, discussed offers with the wife, etc.

And an EA generally has more time to have a gentle, friendly chat on the phone. A solicitor might want to be more brief and business-like in an email or call.

But it sounds like the wife is super angry with the EA.

Maybe suggest to the EA that an colleague of the EA phones - and opens with something like "I'm really sorry that my colleague messed up so badly by not telling you about the visit"... and let the wife vent their anger for a while.

Thanks, this is definitely the impression (EA has been yelled at about the visit), EA said she holds her hands up and they are "moving past it" - I'm not sure I have the hutzpah to ask her to get someone else to speak to her, but it's a good idea!

user1977 said:

annetheman said:

we need to agree a date or I will be charged £175 if exchange and completion are within 7 days of each other...

I presume because you’ve chosen a solicitor who has that within their ludicrous fee tariff? That’s on you, I’m afraid. In any event, are you going to walk away over £175?

Thanks for that. Yes, it is a ridiculous fee. In August, I refused to pay it when I sold my flat because exchange was delayed for reasons out of my control (spent all week chasing and the other solicitor was on holiday at due exchange) -- they did waive it then, we exchanged Monday and completed Friday. So apparently, it's negotiable!

I also cannot argue with the representation I've had. This solicitor sold my leasehold, shared ownership, Building Safety Act-liable flat in under 4 months (2 May to 23 August), and got me to exchange-ready with this house in under a month -- absolutely outstanding timelines. Based on this alone I would choose this firm again, ridiculous exchange-within-7-day-completion fee and all. I just don't want to pay it since it's so avoidable!

mebu60 said:

Assuming the seller still wants to sell the property they'd have a lot more to get emotional about if you withdrew. I would get the EA to warn the seller that is becoming a very real prospect and that they need to instruct their conveyancer to agree exchange and completion dates with your conveyancer asap. You could set a deadline e.g. end of next week for the dates to be agreed but you would have to be prepared to walk away (at least initially). 

Thanks for that. I haven't threatened nor do I want to threaten to walk away because I do want to negotiate a date, just not sure how with an apparently angry seller not talking to anyone .

I broke the chain on previous purchase that took over 8 months so I really can be patient when I need to be, I'm only 1 month into this one -- I don't want to make empty threats and now EA is scared of the seller so I guess I there's nothing I can realistically do?

If we don't exchange next week, maybe I can write a pleading email to the solicitor, via my solicitor? I don't know!

Myci85

TheSpectator said:

To be frank, you sound like the nightmare buyer....." I broke the chain on previous purchase that took over 8 months so I really can be patient when I need to be"

If you think thats being patient I feel for all the other parties involved.

Unsure how agreeing to break the chain to allow the rest of the chain to complete makes her a nightmare buyer!

@annetheman I am really hopeful that once emotions have settled a little things start to progress for you. I am grateful that I didn't have the stress of selling my dad's house to deal with when I lost him, so I can only imagine the extra toll it places on someone already struggling with grief. Perhaps they just need a week or so to take stock and then can return to negotiations. Maybe the speed with which it has gone through has wrongfooted them a little if they were expecting the sale to take the usual 4-6 months. 

annetheman

Myci85 said:

TheSpectator said:

To be frank, you sound like the nightmare buyer....." I broke the chain on previous purchase that took over 8 months so I really can be patient when I need to be"

If you think thats being patient I feel for all the other parties involved.

Unsure how agreeing to break the chain to allow the rest of the chain to complete makes her a nightmare buyer!

@annetheman I am really hopeful that once emotions have settled a little things start to progress for you. I am grateful that I didn't have the stress of selling my dad's house to deal with when I lost him, so I can only imagine the extra toll it places on someone already struggling with grief. Perhaps they just need a week or so to take stock and then can return to negotiations. Maybe the speed with which it has gone through has wrongfooted them a little if they were expecting the sale to take the usual 4-6 months. 

Thank you for that... @TheSpectator rightly deleted their inane comment - I don't need to elaborate on the >8 months waiting for HMLR Title on the almost-unmortgageable house with the single skin kitchen extension that never came because you have been around through that insane ride! anyway....

You are very right about how sudden this must feel for them, it even feels sudden for me! You've just made me think actually selling this house may be very, very low down on their priority list -- while I'm here thinking "why wouldn't they want to get it over with" they simply have far more pressing matters at hand, and an unused investment house is more a nuisance than anything... The deceased was a senior ex-politician so I can only imagine the amount of other things to deal with... On top the grief. 

Thank you for the perspective as always!
 

sheramber

Are they finding the actuality of selling difficult to deal with.

The reality has suddenly struck home.

annetheman

sheramber said:

Are they finding the actuality of selling difficult to deal with.

The reality has suddenly struck home.

I think it could be a mix of this and/or, since it is an investment property of the deceased, just very low on their priority list. I don't think they were ready to sell by the time we were exchange-ready, is the bottom line.

Then EA not telling them about my final viewing fractured that relationship. I was told they were emotionally "on edge" and "furious" so there was no way of negotiating a date through them...

I instead relied on my solicitor and we finally received from the seller a proposal of this Friday 6th December for exchange and Monday 16th December for completion.

Not sure why the delay to exchange (both solicitors have been ready for a week)... but I do not wish to rock the boat.

After exchange, I will just feel a HUGE sense of relief and tbh willing to wait for completion, as long as we're exchanged!

Hogging all the good luck/praying to every deity/summoning universal good winds this hopefully finally happens after nearly an entire calendar year of selling/buying...

Yorkie1

Good luck for later this week!

EssexHebridean

Oh fingers crossed and good luck for everything going smoothly this time!