Seller declared walls knocked down were non-load bearing... should I drop this? (no pun intended)

justpassingthrough24

Bookworm105 said:

justpassingthrough24 said:

r and look into bringing in a structural engineer, else I'll walk away. Thanks again

those are your ONLY two definitive options, which you already knew.

Would be great if you actually responded to my reply to you, but once again thank you so much for your helpful input.

MikeJXE

A floor plan would be a good idea showing room sizes and direction of joists 

Construction of ground floor and 1st floor walls and which have been removed 

That would give a better idea as to whether the walls in question were load bearing or not 

jbrassy

I feel for you OP. Walking away from a property is tough and potentially costly when you factor in legal fees, stamp duty changes and mortgage rates. However, you could end up spending a lot more money if you go forward with the purchase and end up having to fix these issues. I walked away from a house earlier this year after a bad survey and it cost me £4k in legal fees and survey fees. Sometimes it is better to cut your losses. 

Judging by what you've said, I would just walk away without getting a structural engineer in. The seller needed building regs to knock down those walls and he doesn't have it (and even worse, doesn't think he needs it). 

silvercar

We recently knocked out an internal wall that I thought was not load bearing. The structural engineer said it was providing lateral support and we needed an RSJ, so it’s a complex area that you need professional input.

Section62

justpassingthrough24 said:

...
Around 6 months ago, the seller knocked down three internal walls on the ground floor of the house I'm purchasing to make it open plan. He has no building regs or planning permission as he says it wasn't required. He's declared that the walls were non-load bearing walls, but with no building regs or structural surveys to actually prove this, only the word of the builder that did the job.

Can you post before and after floorplans?  Three walls would make me a bit nervous - in theory you could have a building where all the internal walls were non-loadbearing, but for economy of construction the norm in the UK is to have multiple internal loadbearing walls (on at least the ground floor).

justpassingthrough24 said:

...
My question is, how soon after removing potential load bearing walls would structural damage be evident? Surely the house would've fallen in by now if this was the case (and no support added in place of the wall removal)? According to my survey there is no evidence of structural damage but they have said they cannot verify if the walls removed were load bearing or not..

I am just a bit stuck on what to do. Should I drop this? If they were in fact load-bearing walls, the appropriate support must have been put in place or the house surely would've fallen in? Or am I right to keep pushing as this could have implications once I own the property?

Have you ever played Jenga when someone accidentally knocks the table?  In an instant you get  heap of rubble from what was a stable structure which would have stood for eternity without external interference.  The same goes for buildings - if you progressively remove structural parts you won't necessarily get a sudden failure, so long as you don't go too far with the removal work.  But by reducing the stability of the structure and taking it closer to the edge, you can end up with a situation where a small external influence (e.g. a gust of wind) is enough to cause collapse.

A structural engineer would work out how the remaining structure is able to cope with the loads imposed on it, including appropriate factors of safety.  If the structure doesn't meet design standards they would be able to recommend alterations to bring the structure up to the required standards.

However, to do their job properly the SE would need to be able to access parts of the structure that the vendor is unlikely to want exposed for inspection - so even if you do go to the expense of getting a SE report you won't necessarily be able to get a meaningful answer.

mark_cycling00

What do you mean by "wall" above? A bit of plasterboard on some 2x2s? Or breeze blocks? Or bricks?

Some people might be assuming it's brick and telling you to walk away. 

I can't imagine any builder knocking down a wall without checking what was above.

Although it's common for people to get in engineers and surveyors etc. There's a whole world of people who get their builder mate over or have a lot of knowledge themselves and bypass this. 

If you walk away someone else might view it, tap the walls upstairs and snap it up 

I'd pay an engineer or competent builder to have a look with you. You'll probably learn lots of useful info that you can use throughout your life 

justpassingthrough24

MikeJXE said:

A floor plan would be a good idea showing room sizes and direction of joists 

Construction of ground floor and 1st floor walls and which have been removed 

That would give a better idea as to whether the walls in question were load bearing or not 

[floorplan deleted]

I've seen floorplans get deleted on this forum so will put this under a spoiler or will delete later.

And to the MSE forum police - any advice I get from posting these floorplans won't change the fact that I am very aware I need to get a SE.

FreeBear

mark_cycling00 said: I can't imagine any builder knocking down a wall without checking what was above.

Although it's common for people to get in engineers and surveyors etc. There's a whole world of people who get their builder mate over or have a lot of knowledge themselves and bypass this.

Sorry, but a mate or a builder simply do not have the qualifications to say is a wall is safe to remove. And there are plenty of "builders" that will knock a wall down with little regard to what it is supporting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNRiaXVRBgU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bsab7Hu02M

FlorayG

"my surveyor stated there is "no current structural damage""
No wonder you don't trust that, it doesn't say anything helpful at all. There's no current structural damage to a tree while someone is starting to attack it with a chainsaw; that happens when it fails and falls
If you get a SE in OP please post what s/he says!

mebu60

Bookworm105 said:

mebu60 said:

What level of survey have you had done and what did it say regarding the knocked down walls? Are you getting a mortgage? 

did you read the OP? 

" not getting a straight answer from my solicitor or surveyor"

And I'm asking what exactly did the OP's surveyor say in their report. They presumably said something even if it's heavily caveated. It would be useful to see the actual wording used. If there's a mortgage company involved I doubt that they'd be satisfied with vague non-straight answers.