Purchased a Prius - is it worth it?

Cuticuraser

Grumpy_chap said:

Cuticuraser said:

MK4 Prius
worried about long term reliability

They are bomb-proof and will last longer than eternity.

Cuticuraser said:

My concern is the following. I can hear some creaks and rattles in the dash and windows. I know its a used car but my last car was a 2003 BMW 5 series with absolutely no rattles and creaks and it was at 160,000 miles. Is it just that the Prius is a bit more flimsy?

Yes.

Cuticuraser said:

There is definitely an improvement in economy - easily double if not more mpg of what my previous can could do but the car just doesn't feel as planted as my old car, especially at higher speeds.

Prius does not handle as well as 5-series, but very staid, boring, predictable.

I still don’t expect a car that’s 20 years older in design to be better handling than a newer one.

As efficient and cheap to run the Prius is (fingers crossed!) the old 5 series was certainly a pleasure to drive, as old as it was. Road noise is also more apparent in the Prius. Starting to miss the old dog 

Goudy

They are pretty reliable but they do have a couple of common issues.

Rear wheel bearings are prone to wear.
Genuine Toyota one are expensive but there are plenty of decent aftermarket ones.
They are just complete "hubs" that bolt in, so not expensive when it comes to labour.

Water pumps are prone to seizing in the housing.
The pumps are electric, the stator is inside the pump body and well sealed.
The rotor part of the electric motor is actually the impeller and is coated in a rubber substance. This can split open over time, the metal inside then starts to rust and expands, that's when it starts to get stiff or seize.


The car will usually throw a water pump speed related code when it happens, don't ignore it otherwise you'll blow the head gasket and perhaps warp the head as it can't pump coolant anymore. This is why in some places, the Prius has a reputation of head gasket failures.

I've replaced around a dozen of these for friends and family and there is just no set mileage, some last years and mega mileage, some don't.

There are plenty of OEM pumps (Aisin) for sale, hunt around and you should find one less than half the price of Toyota.
There are basically a five or six bolt in and out job after you have drained some coolant and on a Prius can usually be done from above. (Yaris Hybrid a bit trickier as space is limited)
There are also some aftermarket pumps, don't bother with these as they never ever last and can have trouble altering their speed even from new.

There are some places selling just the replacement impellors for £20-£30.
If the pump hasn't over heated trying to spin the old stuck impellor, it might be worth a shot.



There are some apps to help keep an eye on battery condition.
Dr Prius is a fairly well known one, it only costs a few quid to open up all the features.
The app will tell you what types of OBD2 dongles work with it, saves messing around with one's that don't.

This will help "test" the battery condition and how it charges and report if the modules are even, as that's key.
It'll also read all those specific Toyota Hybrid diagnostic trouble codes, like the water pump ones.

(the battery is made up of individual battery packs. Two packs are connected together in series to make a module, then all the modules are all connected together in series to make one big battery)
 
Generally when a traction battery starts to fail you will find one or more modules, particularly the inner ones that are prone to more heat are under performing and the whole pack starts going out of balance (this balance is often referred to as it's state of charge delta).
(The battery has a vent and cooling fan which needs to stay clear and the fan sometimes cleaned, particularly if you travel with hairy pets in the back)

This balance is why you just can't replace duff packs/modules with new. The new will then start to show all the old are lower and you're still out of balance.
When you see "refurbished" batteries advertised, they have usually matched used packs/modules to the decent ones still in the pack and shuffle inner ones to the outer positions, then run the individual packs/modules through some deep cycling above and below what is stated below about charge rates.

Traction batteries tend to last 160k to 180k, on average.
Of course some do more and some less.

They don't fully utilise the whole battery to help prolong it's life.
No matter what it says on the dash readout, it's maximum charge is around 80% and it will fire up the engine once the battery level drops to around 40%.
This is worth noting when any tests are ran.

.

Bigphil1474

OP - have you checked the air recirculator is/isn't on - my car fogs up if I leave it on after I turn the air con off. On my display it's a like a circular arrow.

Tucosalamanca

Cuticuraser said:

Grumpy_chap said:

Cuticuraser said:

MK4 Prius
worried about long term reliability

They are bomb-proof and will last longer than eternity.

Cuticuraser said:

My concern is the following. I can hear some creaks and rattles in the dash and windows. I know its a used car but my last car was a 2003 BMW 5 series with absolutely no rattles and creaks and it was at 160,000 miles. Is it just that the Prius is a bit more flimsy?

Yes.

Cuticuraser said:

There is definitely an improvement in economy - easily double if not more mpg of what my previous can could do but the car just doesn't feel as planted as my old car, especially at higher speeds.

Prius does not handle as well as 5-series, but very staid, boring, predictable.

I still don’t expect a car that’s 20 years older in design to be better handling than a newer one.

As efficient and cheap to run the Prius is (fingers crossed!) the old 5 series was certainly a pleasure to drive, as old as it was. Road noise is also more apparent in the Prius. Starting to miss the old dog 

You're comparing chalk and cheese.
20yr old 5series is almost over engineered, designed to be opulent, with scant regard to the planet or running costs.
Prius is designed to to be frugal and eco-friendly, literally the opposite of the BMW.

Prius is outstanding at what it does, they make brilliant taxis, but who wants to feel like a taxi driver...

Grumpy_chap

Cuticuraser said:

I still don’t expect a car that’s 20 years older in design to be better handling than a newer one.

That is an odd conclusion.

The 5-series will have been marketed under the strapline "the ultimate driving machine".
If the Prius had an equivalent strapline it would have to be "the ultimate sleeping tablet" (which could well be why Toyota don't use it).

Would you expect a brand new Sandero to handle better than a 20-yo Ferrari?

Kim_13

Mk4 Prius according to Google is 2016 on, so I put into Autotrader for a 2016 or 2017 Prius with zero tax. A 17 plate with 59,000 is marked as good price with only a few hundred change from £14,000, and a 16 plate the same with 61.5K for £1,000 less. Are a few cheaper? Sure, but there’s usually an obvious downside (write offs/imports.) It will depend on the trim of your car but it doesn’t seem to me that you have overpaid particularly - main dealer history will put the price up compared to a full service history from anywhere. 

These vehicles will be the cheapest thing to tax next year that isn’t an EV without the expensive car charge attached to it (and owners of a lot of new EVs will pay more due to the fiscal drag of that £40,000 threshold.) They seem to command higher prices than the same car just on the wrong side of the cut off and that is understandable.

Cuticuraser

Goudy said:

They are pretty reliable but they do have a couple of common issues.

Rear wheel bearings are prone to wear.
Genuine Toyota one are expensive but there are plenty of decent aftermarket ones.
They are just complete "hubs" that bolt in, so not expensive when it comes to labour.

Water pumps are prone to seizing in the housing.
The pumps are electric, the stator is inside the pump body and well sealed.
The rotor part of the electric motor is actually the impeller and is coated in a rubber substance. This can split open over time, the metal inside then starts to rust and expands, that's when it starts to get stiff or seize.


The car will usually throw a water pump speed related code when it happens, don't ignore it otherwise you'll blow the head gasket and perhaps warp the head as it can't pump coolant anymore. This is why in some places, the Prius has a reputation of head gasket failures.

I've replaced around a dozen of these for friends and family and there is just no set mileage, some last years and mega mileage, some don't.

There are plenty of OEM pumps (Aisin) for sale, hunt around and you should find one less than half the price of Toyota.
There are basically a five or six bolt in and out job after you have drained some coolant and on a Prius can usually be done from above. (Yaris Hybrid a bit trickier as space is limited)
There are also some aftermarket pumps, don't bother with these as they never ever last and can have trouble altering their speed even from new.

There are some places selling just the replacement impellors for £20-£30.
If the pump hasn't over heated trying to spin the old stuck impellor, it might be worth a shot.



There are some apps to help keep an eye on battery condition.
Dr Prius is a fairly well known one, it only costs a few quid to open up all the features.
The app will tell you what types of OBD2 dongles work with it, saves messing around with one's that don't.

This will help "test" the battery condition and how it charges and report if the modules are even, as that's key.
It'll also read all those specific Toyota Hybrid diagnostic trouble codes, like the water pump ones.

(the battery is made up of individual battery packs. Two packs are connected together in series to make a module, then all the modules are all connected together in series to make one big battery)
 
Generally when a traction battery starts to fail you will find one or more modules, particularly the inner ones that are prone to more heat are under performing and the whole pack starts going out of balance (this balance is often referred to as it's state of charge delta).
(The battery has a vent and cooling fan which needs to stay clear and the fan sometimes cleaned, particularly if you travel with hairy pets in the back)

This balance is why you just can't replace duff packs/modules with new. The new will then start to show all the old are lower and you're still out of balance.
When you see "refurbished" batteries advertised, they have usually matched used packs/modules to the decent ones still in the pack and shuffle inner ones to the outer positions, then run the individual packs/modules through some deep cycling above and below what is stated below about charge rates.

Traction batteries tend to last 160k to 180k, on average.
Of course some do more and some less.

They don't fully utilise the whole battery to help prolong it's life.
No matter what it says on the dash readout, it's maximum charge is around 80% and it will fire up the engine once the battery level drops to around 40%.
This is worth noting when any tests are ran.

.

Thanks very informative, I will keep an eye on these things.

As for the MPG, the trip computer states I'm doing 70-75mpg but when I calculate the true MPG through filling up to the brim and driving until empty, the actual MPG I am getting is 60. That is a massive discrepenancy

Bigwheels1111

My friend has a 15 plate with over 200k on the clock. Mini cab.
He has serviced it himself.
Issues, water pump at 140k, only normally last 100k.
£205 genuine pump & £20 for new antifreeze. We did the job in 1 hour.
Remove air filter housing and pipe, disconnect electrical connection and 5 bolts on pump.
Remove and refit new pump. There is a water drain at the bottom of engine.
Refill with antifreeze and run engine with heater on hot, top up antifreeze as air bubbles out.
Battery went at 175k, genuine replacement £1375 fitted, then the relay went ( not included with battery ).
£80 second hand.
Brake booster pump went last week, £200 for low milage second hand part.
We know a specialist in Norbury just outside Croydon.

Price has gone up, but this is the Toyota specialist he uses.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/295216536357

My friend is heartbroken as he can only cab it for 1 more year.
He loves the car and get 57-62 mpg regularly.

Goudy

MPG can swing a bit in a hybrid even over identical trips.

Cold weather doesn't help any car but unlike a straight petrol car that is just using/measuring fuel used against mileage, a hybrid has another source of power, the battery.

The engine works more or less depending on what state the battery is in.
Park up tonight with a full battery and tomorrow it will do X mpg tomorrow morning.
Park up tonight with a half full battery and it will do Y mpg tomorrow morning.
Hammer is home tonight to watch the football and the battery is nearly flat when you park up and tomorrow it will do Z mpg.

The mpg display on any car tries to average these swings out, the longer the "trip" is running the more even it becomes.
This means the more 60 mpg you do, the more the current display will drop as it appears to have been running higher before.

The speed it readjusts will be based on the current trip cycle, if it's over thousands and thousands of miles, it'll take a good while to even out.

Reset the trip and the data it's using starts again from the beginning and you should see it reflect current mpg.

As you are new to the Toyota hybrid, you might want to start reading up on how some owners drive them.
My colleague did 170k (and averaged around 83 mpg over that period) in her last Yaris hybrid and talks about the "Toyota Tickle".

She describes it as tickling the throttle (easing on and off gently) while trying to maintain the required speed.

She's replaced it with a new Yaris hybrid and it's early yet but her 50 mile each way commute is showing 90 ish.