A Shade Greener solar panels

GT732

Hi All, am looking at buying a property at auction that "has" solar panels from ASG. The issue is that they were fitted in 2014, and in 2018 the previous owner had asked ASG to remove them for roof works and they were never reinstalled and no roof works have been done.

I have approached ASG before the auction ends, and they advised of the above. They did not mention this in the legal pack. It is a 25 year lease until 2039.

I have subsequently asked them will two further periods of 3 month removals would be allowed for the new owners in case roof works need doing, and what will they do about the 6 year loss they had.

They replied until you are confirmed as the new owner we cannot discuss this with you!! Wow!

I went back to them and advised them due diligence is done prior to a sale not after a sale.

Anyone able to advise whether they have managed to get additional 3 month breaks in such circumstances?

eddddy

GT732 said:

I went back to them and advised them due diligence is done prior to a sale not after a sale.

Unfortunately with (conventional) auctions, it doesn't really work like that.

In simple terms, you are buying the property with its legal pack 'as is'. 

There might be huge gaps and 'unknowns' in the information in the legal pack - in fact, that's often why the property ends-up in an auction. The legal problems make it unsaleable in any other way.

You have to judge the size of the risks, and decide how much you're willing to bid based on those risks.

Having said that, there's no harm in trying to gather more information, if you can - e.g. by asking ASG.

GT732 said:

Anyone able to advise whether they have managed to get additional 3 month breaks in such circumstances?

You need to read the terms of the lease to see what rights you have to "breaks" and/or your rights/responsibilities in general, under the lease.

Beyond that, if you find that ASG have given others "gestures of goodwill" (like additional breaks), you can try to judge how likely they are to give you a "gesture of goodwill".


But I guess it's also possible that ASG are on the verge of taking legal action against the lessor (which would be you if you buy the property), for breaching the lease.

badmemory

I have to answer that I don't know.  BUT

I am very surprised that any installer would put solar on a roof that was so near to needing repairs.  The first thing my installers did before even quoting was to check that the roof was in a very good state.

Due diligence is done before sale or it is pointless, you have done yours.  Walk away.  They know there is a problem or they would have been up front with you.

GT732

eddddy said:

GT732 said:

I went back to them and advised them due diligence is done prior to a sale not after a sale.

Unfortunately with (conventional) auctions, it doesn't really work like that.

In simple terms, you are buying the property with its legal pack 'as is'. 

There might be huge gaps and 'unknowns' in the information in the legal pack - in fact, that's often why the property ends-up in an auction. The legal problems make it unsaleable in any other way.

You have to judge the size of the risks, and decide how much you're willing to bid based on those risks.

Having said that, there's no harm in trying to gather more information, if you can - e.g. by asking ASG.

GT732 said:

Anyone able to advise whether they have managed to get additional 3 month breaks in such circumstances?

You need to read the terms of the lease to see what rights you have to "breaks" and/or your rights/responsibilities in general, under the lease.

Beyond that, if you find that ASG have given others "gestures of goodwill" (like additional breaks), you can try to judge how likely they are to give you a "gesture of goodwill".


But I guess it's also possible that ASG are on the verge of taking legal action against the lessor (which would be you if you buy the property), for breaching the lease.

It would be difficult to prove that I personally was responsible for the breach when the breach happened 6 years prior to my ownership. Whilst the lease does get passed on to the new owner, it is punitive and unfair to take action against me when I wasn't the one that breached the terms. Any good solicitor would get that thrown out. 

If the property doesn't sell, the mortgagee can ask them to terminate the lease within two months because the panels are causing an issue for a sale to complete. It's in auction as its a repossession from the bank. 

badmemory

Just because it is not normal for due diligence to take place with an auction sale does not mean that some of it cannot be.  If no-one is prepared to tell you the implications the normal reason would be that they are bad for you.  This is not like being unable to have a full survey.  This is legal implications. 

Petriix

My suggestion is to bid is if this could end up costing £10k. If it doesn't then you pocket the difference, if it does then you've already accounted for it. 

badmemory

Is this one of those systems that they are paid for any exported energy, and has no batteries?

QrizB

Petriix said:

My suggestion is to bid is if this could end up costing £10k. If it doesn't then you pocket the difference, if it does then you've already accounted for it. 

That was going to be my suggestion, too. ASG's lease might cost £5-10k to buy out, so allow for that cost in your bid.

badmemory

I suspect they have already lost more than 5000 so it may cost more to buy out the future too.

GT732

badmemory said:

Is this one of those systems that they are paid for any exported energy, and has no batteries?

That's correct. 

In the legal pack they haven't said panels are no longer there and will need reinstalling. They have simply included a letter full of rubbish explaining how new owner will enjoy free leccy and should complete new owners form.. 

The main issue which they are deflecting on is allowing another 3 month period for roof works if required in the next 15 years. There were only 2 x 3 month periods in the whole 25 year lease which have been exhausted... Previous owner got 6 years break let alone 6 months!

The other alternative is, if the house doesn't sell in the auction and the mortgagee who is selling the house can end the lease with ASG by giving 2 months notice to them if they feel the panels are causing a problem to sell. 

badmemory

Before my installation & talking to the installers, I made a comment about batteries.  I was told that they would not make an installation without them.  For example, in July which was lovely and sunny, I exported more than I can use & I use a lot.  But no free electricity once it goes dark of course or not without a battery.  November has been a bit dreary & some days have barely generated 5% of my use.  Without a battery to use to download electricity when it is cheap it is hardly worth the effort at this time of year.

I doubt very much that the lease will permit you to install a battery as it would be against their interests.

I do wonder if the previous occupants didn't bother having them put back because it wasn't worth the effort.