Housing association charging a months notice after death

sarah1972

Robbie64 said:

sarah1972 said:

la531983 said:

sarah1972 said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Does his estate have sufficient assets to pay for the funeral?

I paid for his funeral prior x 

You would be within your rights I believe to take the money from his bank account to "reimburse" you (if any), but someone else will confirm this. More preferable than a creditor claiming it.

Thank you, his will just says that I am executor and everything goes to me. Presumably that is after any creditors make a claim? X

It is. Funeral costs take the priority followed by creditors such as the DWP, council tax, outstanding rent owed to landlords etc. You can reimburse yourself for the funeral costs. You can also reimburse yourself for any reasonable / essential costs which are unavoidable when dealing with, and settling, an estate, including death certificates, costs associated with emptying the house, as above, dealing with paperwork etc. What you may find a problem is if you leave outstanding debts to creditors when there would be enough money in the estate to cover these costs. As an executor you can then be held personally liable for paying creditors if you act unreasonably in disposing of assets.

Is the estate solvent (i.e do assets exceed the amount of debts)? Or are there funds left to pay some of the debts? If so, be very careful how you deal with the estate.

Perfect, Thank you so much. 

There are no debts, DWP, council tax, utilities all done and If I reimburse myself funeral, death certificates their will be very little left. 

You have mentioned outstanding rent owed which there isn’t any, other than the notice that they want even though they have possession of the house from today …. So they can claim it from his bank?

Newcad

sarah1972 said:

You have mentioned outstanding rent owed which there isn’t any, other than the notice that they want even though they have possession of the house from today …. So they can claim it from his bank?

Although you may have given them the keys back they don't have legal possession yet until the notice period has ended. Which presumably would be the 13th Dec (or technically the 15th Dec if rent is payable weekly on a Monday).
Just giving the keys back does not legally end a tenancy. - Unless both parties agree that it does, in which case no further rent is then due.
A landlord, even a HA, cannot both have legal posession and charge a tenant (or their estate) ongoing rent.
If they are still charging rent for 'tenants notice' then they cannot legally relet the property, or even access it to clean, redecorate, etc. until that 'tenants notice' period has expired and the tenancy has thus legally ended.
They can't (legally) have it both ways, it's one or the other.
Although your giving the keys back early is a sign that you don't really care what they do with it now, if they are responsible then they won't use those keys until it is legally their posession again..

One thing that you should do is check how the rent account balance stood on the 14th Nov, particularly if his rent was payable weekly.
HA tenants are (usually) expected to pay rent in Advance, and so if it was already in advance then there may not be a full months worth extra neeeded to cover this 'notice'.
I do note that you said it was being paid by benefits, which are paid in arrears, (4-weeks in arrears if HB, a month if UC).
However HA's expect tenants in such a situation to pay a little top-up for a few years so that they gradually get their rent account into advance.
eg, My rent account is now usually 2 or 3 weeks in advance when I get each months UC and pay another months rent in advance. (so it's then 6-8 weekly payments in advance).

sarah1972

Newcad said:

sarah1972 said:

You have mentioned outstanding rent owed which there isn’t any, other than the notice that they want even though they have possession of the house from today …. So they can claim it from his bank?

Although you may have given them the keys back they don't have legal possession yet until the notice period has ended. Which presumably would be the 13th Dec (or technically the 15th Dec if rent is payable weekly on a Monday).
Just giving the keys back does not legally end a tenancy. - Unless both parties agree that it does, in which case no further rent is then due.
A landlord, even a HA, cannot both have legal posession and charge a tenant (or their estate) ongoing rent.
If they are still charging rent for 'tenants notice' then they cannot legally relet the property, or even access it to clean, redecorate, etc. until that 'tenants notice' period has expired and the tenancy has thus legally ended.
They can't (legally) have it both ways, it's one or the other.
Although your giving the keys back early is a sign that you don't really care what they do with it now, if they are responsible then they won't use those keys until it is legally their posession again..

One thing that you should do is check how the rent account balance stood on the 14th Nov, particularly if his rent was payable weekly.
HA tenants are (usually) expected to pay rent in Advance, and so if it was already in advance then there may not be a full months worth extra neeeded to cover this 'notice'.
I do note that you said it was being paid by benefits, which are paid in arrears, (4-weeks in arrears if HB, a month if UC).
However HA's expect tenants in such a situation to pay a little top-up for a few years so that they gradually get their rent account into advance.
eg, My rent account is now usually 2 or 3 weeks in advance when I get each months UC and pay another months rent in advance. (so it's then 6-8 weekly payments in advance).

Thank you. 

He’s never paid any top ups so I’m guessing it will be a months notice plus any arrears 🤦‍♀️ 
They said if I give the keys in early they can legally go in to gut the place and get ready for new tenants regardless if it’s in the notice period. 

Anyway, Thank you for your advice. I will just wait for them to apply to his bank to get their money. 

Newcad

Well they are legally wrong there, people answering the phone for a company often are. If they take possession in that manner then legally they can't charge rent as well.- it's pretty obvious that would be having their cake and eating it.

If/when the rent for a tenancy is still payable there is still a tenancy ongoing and they have no right to do that.

However they know that many people don't know rental law, (often including the people answering their phones), and even when they do know most peope in such a situation can't be bothered with the legal arguing anway and will just pay.

They try it on - As already evidenced by them trying to tell you that you personally were now liable for a months rent, when of course you aren't personally liable.

sarah1972

Newcad said:

Well they are legally wrong there, people answering the phone for a company often are. If hey take possession in that manner then legally they can't charge rent as well.- it's pretty obvious that would be having their cake and eating it.

If/when the rent for a tenancy is still payable there is still a tenancy and they have no right to do that.

However they know that many people don't know rental law, (often including the people answering their phones), and even when they do know most peope in such a situation can't be bothered with the legal arguing anway and will just pay.

They try it on - As already evidenced by them trying to tell you that you personally were now liable for a months rent, when of course you aren't personally liable.

Thank you! I have an email saying are you happy for us to get the keys and take back the house earlier and I said yes asap. 

If they then still invoice me until December 23rd I will fight it from the day they took back possession x

Newcad

Depends on the exact wording of that email - you may have agreed to let them access the property to do work even though the estate (not you personally) is still liable to pay rent until mid December.

But even if you didn't do that:

They tend to rely on the fact that instructing a lawyer to insist in your rights is going to cost more than just paying what they ask.

Even if you DIY then is it worth your time and stress?

Your choice in the end, but you probably don't need the hassle at this time and they know that

sarah1972

Newcad said:

Depends on the exact wording of that email - you may have agreed to let them access the property to do work even though the estate (not you personally) is still liable to pay rent until mid December.

But even if you didn't do that:

They tend to rely on the fact that instructing a lawyer to insist in your rights is going to cost more than just paying what they ask.

Even if you DIY then is it worth your time and stress?

Your choice in the end, but you probably don't need the hassle at this time and they know that

This is the exact wording in the email. 

Are you happy for A2 dominion to take the keys out the safe before the end of tenancy date and take property back?

Newcad

If you said yes to that emailed question then you have agreed to let them access the property and work on it before the end of tenancy date.
The tenancy is still ongoing, rent is still payable until that end of tenancy date.

Note that the keys were being kept in a safe, and if you said no to the email then they would (should) have remainded in that safe until the end of tenancy date.

sarah1972

Newcad said:

If you said yes to that emailed question then you have agreed to let them access the property and work on it before the end of tenancy date.
The tenancy is still ongoing, rent is still payable until that end of tenancy date.

Note that the keys were being kept in a safe, and if you said no to the email then they would (should) have remainded in that safe until the end of tenancy date.

But they say ‘take the property back’ how can they charge rent if they have taken it back? X

Newcad

That's because they haven't actually "taken the property back", despite what they say.

They just have your permission to use the keys- ie. enter the property and clean, decorate, etc. Even show prosoective new tenants round.

But they don't have legal posession until the ongoing tenancy has ended, so can't actually relet it until then. (And the tenant or their estate is still liable for rent until then).

There is a LOT of loose and misleading language used by property agents, usually to imply something that's beneficial to them.

(Estate/Lettings Agents stretching the truth, who would have thought?