All electric flat - heating situation

Horracce

@Gerry1 .. many thanks for that, your point is VERY much noted .. and much appreciated 😊

DeeQS

I have an apartment with the same issue which my elderly mother in law lives in. We moved her to the Tomatoe Pensioner tariff which gives 14p rates 6am-10am and 4pm-9pm which is ideal for her heating schedule. Typical daily electricity usage is 30kwh - £5. - That’s the 2 bed EPC B apartment being kept at 20c for those house.
When we bought it electricity was circa 10p so I wasn’t too worried about the panel heaters. In hindsight though… 

Scot_39

Horracce said:

Hi all, any ideas, help, comments, suggestions are welcome ..

Im trying to get used to / adjust after moving into a small, all electric 1 bedroom flat in a coastal area. The flat is reasonably modern, cavity wall insulated, double glazed and no draughts. The flat is heated by 2 small wall mounted thermostatically controlled electric panel heaters.  I’ve never had a smart meter before and observing it during each day lets me know my usage during the recent cold period .. I previously had a flat where the heat was included in the service charge. Here it is not. 

So my question is this. On summer or autumn days my daily electric cost was approx £1:40 (which inc. 67p service charge) .. no heating involved.  In the recent very cold period, with heating on, the daily cost is between £5 - £7 …

Is this about average for others in a similar situation? Is it normal to hide under blankets or a duvet too? Please let me know your thoughts or your own experiences.. 

The important thing to remember is the "recent very cold" bit of that new daily cost - as it isn't normally as cold as last few days every day in winter.

Try not to panic - and try not to risk your health - to save a few 10s pence a day.  Unless you really cannot afford it.

My locations daytime temps today have swung a predicted around 7-8C (even if windchill and rain doesn't make us feel like it when out and about) and my night-time tonight maybe 10C - as its been -2 last few nights - and forecast a gusty wind and 8-9C tonight.

My consumption for last couple of days is similar to cold spells last 2 winters - daily use peaking high 20s / low 30s kWh - but my monthly averages for the coldest months of the year (Nov/Dec to Mar) - are normally more like 2/3rds of that sort of number - c20kWh/day - sometimes less.  

I hope to use much less - maybe 15 kWh ave over next few days until temps drop a bit - but not to the recent lows.

You could fit cheaper to run heating - like HHR NSH but they are not cheap to buy - 2 large rated for 1.5kW output - as your panels - be pushing £1800 these days for Quantum RFs on a quick google online supply only - plus installation + wiring + possibly even a new meter with ALCS if want those sort of devices dual wired to avoid timer complications.

Until you get to know what your winter average and summer averages truly are - payback on investment - in simplest terms ( installed cost / savings in running costs for energy per year = payback in years ) - is going to be difficult to estimate / guesstimate.

Theres no point in paying £1000s potentially - to upgrade to HHR NSH - if might only save £100s per year in running costs in the short to medium term.  You may as well just invest the capital / save it - and pay the electricity bills with it.

And if you can be flexibly on heating and cooking times - you might want to look at cheaper tariff alternatives like agile has been for many over recent months.

If your daily bills remain too high on average in the interim - there are many threads here on how to save on energy.

Like if can - can you live with a lower thermostat setting on the second panel - for several hours a day and night - if not in your main living space - e.g. hallways or bedroom - health permitting

Gerry1

As it's a relatively new boiler that never runs flat out even with the wick turned up full, the answer must be to invest in bigger radiators.  Compared to the alternatives it's likely to be a one-off cost with a far better rate of return.

BuyCurious

Horracce said:

Hi all, any ideas, help, comments, suggestions are welcome ..

You'll also tend to have lights on more often in the months that it is colder.  Make sure none of them are halogen bulbs.  Some years ago we had a real-time power monitor next to the living room TV showing that the general house consumption was around 700W in the evening.  I could tell when someone had left the 4x50W or 2x75W halogen downlighters on in the kitchen as it added noticeably to the usage.

Regarding the panel heaters, I'd aim for 18C space heating and use a blanket to watch TV, etc.

Scot_39

Horracce said:

Thanks. My unit cost is 25.39 .. I am with Octupus on the flexible tariff. The heaters are rated 1.5kw each .. I turn them on and off if I go out or depending on my plans for the day. I first moved in beginning of August and there’s been no change in the tariff since then. All other usage has remained the same

Your prices should have gone up with cap on Oct 1st as per Ofgem cap - unless Octopus didnt pass on the rise.

But 25.389 is the Oct rate for NW and Merseyside for Oct tabled here 

 https://octopus.energy/blog/energy-price-cap-oct-2024/

And potentially change every 3 months thereafter to track the Ofgem cap.

Horracce

Scot_39 said

Your prices should have gone up with cap on Oct 1st as per Ofgem cap - unless Octopus didnt pass on the rise.

But 25.389 is the Oct rate for NW and Merseyside for Oct tabled here 

 https://octopus.energy/blog/energy-price-cap-oct-2024/

And potentially change every 3 months thereafter to track the Ofgem cap.

Yes, you’re right, there was a lower rate when I first moved in, a few days at 22.12p and then the rate was 22.82 for a month or two .. 

Horracce

Thanks all for the suggestions and ideas. I shall carefully go through this winter and keep a note of what works best or otherwise. All of my lights are either 3 watts, 6 or sometimes 10 - dependant on the setting or fitting(s) .. I’ve just one left to change. I’m hunting down a couple of draughts too, and will solve those once found. 

On personal heating, I am layering properly now, and this is proving of benefit. Especially thermal long sleeve t shirt and socks. There’s one window I might apply the film to and apply with the hairdryer. 

I very much realise that my recent worry is based on a cold snap and that is not the continuous norm throughout the winter, so I shall observe and learn from my first winter here and that will allow me to make my longer term decisions on changes to my setup. I will however in the meantime, study and research the cost of Dimplex Quantum’s and crunch some numbers in a spreadsheet. I will also ask others in my building about their arrangements. I am not quite sure where to discover a list or table of the best / lowest E7 / night rates .. if any can point me in the right direction, that would be greatly appreciated.

On budgeting, I shall maintain as healthy a monthly DDR as I can manage and try to keep a forward balance to smooth out the seasonal usage to keep surprises at bay.

Thankfully, I am south facing, so I do get some solar heating affect from that, but only if I’m lucky during these grey/dark months. Being coastal, the average outside humidity is 85% at the moment, so I do have to keep an eye on that internally too for heating performance and to prevent condensation…

Gerry1

Horracce said:

I will also ask others in my building about their arrangements.

OK, but remember that their lifestyles may vary.  Tropical or temperate, full hot baths or short cool showers, full roasts or microwaved meals, fresh air fiends or hermetically sealed etc.

I am not quite sure where to discover a list or table of the best / lowest E7 / night rates .. if any can point me in the right direction, that would be greatly appreciated.

You'll have to start my guessing your annual consumption and your day/night % split.  Put your day and night kWh figures into several comparison sites (search the whole market, not just the default suppliers) and see what comes up.  The lower the night rate the higher the day rate will be.  Rinse and repeat as you get a better idea of your usage.  Beware of some suppliers' sites that only use the total figure and allocate an arbitrary split that gives a fake cheap quotation.  Something that dozy Ofgem should fix but haven't.

On budgeting, I shall maintain as healthy a monthly DDR as I can manage and try to keep a forward balance to smooth out the seasonal usage to keep surprises at bay.

Does your supplier need the accrued interest more than you do?  Variable DD is better (higher bills in winter of course, lower in summer) and makes it easier to spot excessive consumption sooner.

Scot_39

Good luck with your savings with current kit.

As you said you hadnt been paying directly for heating,  some of the comments in terms of needing to change heaters -might be news to you.  Electric heatimg costs without ashp option often comes as a real shock to those moving from gas. 

In terms of gas vs panels vs proper rate shifting nsh a user here @QrizB produced a series of cost comparisons.  The reference to Fisher was for panel brand that were ultimately  found to be being marketed with false claims by Trading Standards (sadly casecwas settled out of court in Leicester caec at any rate)  but you can I suspect use that pricing line for your panels as a guide.

The comparisons were updated regularly - during the crisis - but the before is cheaper than now, one of the 2022 and last couple of dates the sr is only maybe c3p higher than current so take 10% off.

But it and the other posts behind detailing some of the assumptions - shows starkly why people above are saying you might want to change heating.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78557202/#Comment_78557202

But the figures use a high for me anyway - 10MWh - 10,000 kWh - which is just below the median dual fuel home annual consumption (ofgem) TDCV for gas of 11500 kWh used for those with gas and electric - the sort of audience the post was targetted too - who also have a median tdcv 2700kWh for electric on top.

OFGEM also produce all electric tdcv for profile class 2 homes low is c2200kWh, median 3900 kWh.  But that's everything  not just heating in those homes.

So you would need to strip out heating from normal.  Easy for space - thats just summer vs winter if had the history - so as you say you need to wait  - maybe less so for hw - coming from SR metering.

And in terms of say panel to nsh - possibly even the hot water component - although with a large cylinder type tank - a shift to e7 should help there too.

My savings would be fraction of those tabled there at comparative rates.  Maybe as low as sub 15% if just space heating.  Not enough to invest £1000s at today's rates by itself.  But cost savings not the only issue - at some point the fath of having to adjust settings, or a failure on now 20+ yr old heaters or quite possible future loss of my 3xoff peak per day e10 are all real concerns.

And the savings and so years for payback as you can see depends on pricing - from the range in that linked post hence the guesstimate not estimate pay back comment.