SIP rejected my template appeal, IAS appeal next?

discountdude123

Hi all,



A mate of mine took my hire car to a terribly maintained Manchester car park for work on an October morning. When he reached the car park, there was only one space left between two parked cars so he just parked there and paid. He did not notice any markings on the ground as they were not clear but later when he returned to the car park, everybody (about 5 cars) in the row got a ticket each on the windscreen. At this point, he thought this was a mistake of the parking company's payment system and was confident about appeal as he did pay for parking. It was only when he got home, he opened the ticket pouch and found it was for "not in marked bay" so the other 4 cars must also got the same reason. I was obviously outraged to hear his story and decided to use my knowledge learned here to help him fight this unfair parking firm. Hence, I used the template in his appeal: 

To whom it may concern,

Reference: Parking Charge Notice: 123123123, Vehicle Registration: FU SIP

I refer to the above-detailed Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) issued to me by SIP Parking Ltd as a Notice to Hirer. I confirm that as the hirer of this vehicle, I am its keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA”) and I write to formally challenge the validity of this PCN. 

You will no doubt be familiar with the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA to be followed in order for a parking operator to be able to invoke keeper liability for a Parking Charge. There are a number of reasons why SIP Parking Ltd’s Notice to Hirer did not comply with POFA; in order that you may understand why, I suggest that you carefully study the details of Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 in particular. 

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle. 

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.

Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving your response within the relevant timescales specified under the British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice.

Yours faithfully,

Now, this is the reply I got a couple of days before:

Date of reply: 14/11/2024
PCN issued at: 30/10/2024   

Dear,
 
We are in receipt your appeal against PCN 123123
 
After reviewing the evidence and the information that you have provided in your appeal we regret to inform you that your appeal has been unsuccessful.
 
Your vehicle was parked in a manner other than in accordance with the signage situated at the car park.
 
For this reason the parking charge was issued correctly and the charge now stands at £60.00 to be paid within 14 days. After this time the charge will increase and additional charges may be incurred.
 
Our customer service agent's clarification:
Your vehicle was not parked in a marked bay, as stated on the charge you have received. See attached image of your vehicle clearly parked across the boundary of the marked bay. Signage states that vehicles must be parked fully within the confines of a marked bay and not in a manner which may obstruct other drivers who may wish to park. The charge has therefore been issued correctly and the amount remains payable.
 
Yours Sincerely,
 
SIP Parking Limited

Even though, in the above reply to my appeal, SIP asked me to see the "attached image", no image/evidence was attached apart from their words against mine and this reply came from a SIP non-reply email so there's no way for me to ask further.

Therefore, my question is whether it's worth appealing to IAS which is what they use. I have heard many members mentioned IAS is a bit of a joke nowadays.

Thank you for your help in advance and I look forward to hearing your advice.

Best regards,
Me

Coupon-mad

What are the images like?  Clearly out of bay lines or no evidence?

Gr1pr

Never use a SIP car park, absolutely never, especially not in central Manchester or Salford 

The newbies sticky thread in announcements tells you that the IAS stage should be ignored 

Eventually SIP are likely to issue a court claim pack from the CNBC in Northampton using MCOL, in house claim 

The victim will need to convince the judge in civil court, perhaps in Manchester court if that is the victims local court !

Grizebeck

SIP car parks are a real trap

discountdude123

Coupon-mad said:

What are the images like?  Clearly out of bay lines or no evidence?

That’s the thing, I was not sent any images. 

KeithP

You weren't sent any images because you didn't wait for a Notice to Keeper before appealing a windscreen ticket.

Also, as this was a hire car, it would probably been best if you had used one of the appeals specifically written for hired vehicles.

Still, the good thing is you have hooked this away from the hire company - would have probably paid the parking company on your behalf and also charged you a fee for doing so.

discountdude123

Coupon-mad said:

What are the images like?  Clearly out of bay lines or no evidence?

As you can see, all was given was the parking ticket and the email reply with no image attachment. I guess they must have taken some photos of my car not in the bay but when my friend parked there, he couldn’t see the lines as all the other cars must have parked incorrectly and blocked the view of the lines.

Umkomaas

Go to their website, use the PCN reference number and you'll be able to view every photo they have of your car.

discountdude123

Umkomaas said:

Go to their website, use the PCN reference number and you'll be able to view every photo they have of your car.

https://www.sipcarparks.com/

I could not find anywhere to view the photos from the SIP website? Could you please advise? When I used the appeal portal, it didn't show me any photos. If I use the payment portal, it takes me straight to card information. Have you managed to get photos from SIP before?

discountdude123

KeithP said:

You weren't sent any images because you didn't wait for a Notice to Keeper before appealing a windscreen ticket.

Also, as this was a hire car, it would probably been best if you had used one of the appeals specifically written for hired vehicles.

Still, the good thing is you have hooked this away from the hire company - would have probably paid the parking company on your behalf and also charged you a fee for doing so.

Thanks. I definitely couldn't wait for a NTK to arrive because my hire company charges £50 admin fee to cover the cost of scanning it to me .

I thought my first paragraph did use the hire car template, is there a better one? I'm curious to know in what way it would be better. Thank you

Coupon-mad

When you go to appeal surely they come up?