Final Salary Pension Statement (LGPS)

hyubh

Nebulous2 said:

I transferred from an English LGPS to a Scottish one during the period of the 60ths pension and ended up with over 30 years in a scheme which only ran for 6 years. 

Whether I should have or not is a different story, but in some ways it suited me, as I wanted to maximise pension rather than lump sum, and I lost the previous automatic lump sum. 

IIRC that was because it would have been a Club transfer rather than an 'interfund' (which would have been like for like service). The fact the Scottish LGPS went 60ths one year later than England and Wales meant like-for-like service didn't make complete sense, so your transfer was done in the same way a transfer from (say) the NHS or Teachers schemes was/is done. (Technically the LGPS has always been three separate schemes in law, one for England and Wales, another for Scotland, and the third for NI.)

joseph80

Thank you for all your comments and suggestions. I’ve had a read through all my transfer paperwork and cannot see any reference to ‘60th’ or ‘80th’. Just the amount that was being transferred and the amount of Pension it was buying. 

I’m presuming it wasn’t a Club transfer as if it was, the 80th calculation would be used (I think) due to the dates the service relates to. 

I guess I just need to presume it’s correct 🤷‍♀️ but would prefer it if I knew the reasoning behind it. I’m obviously slightly reluctant to ask, as using the 60th calculation works in my favour. 

Nebulous2

hyubh said:

Nebulous2 said:

I transferred from an English LGPS to a Scottish one during the period of the 60ths pension and ended up with over 30 years in a scheme which only ran for 6 years. 

Whether I should have or not is a different story, but in some ways it suited me, as I wanted to maximise pension rather than lump sum, and I lost the previous automatic lump sum. 

IIRC that was because it would have been a Club transfer rather than an 'interfund' (which would have been like for like service). The fact the Scottish LGPS went 60ths one year later than England and Wales meant like-for-like service didn't make complete sense, so your transfer was done in the same way a transfer from (say) the NHS or Teachers schemes was/is done. (Technically the LGPS has always been three separate schemes in law, one for England and Wales, another for Scotland, and the third for NI.)

You were helpful in explaining it the last time I posted about it.

I changed employment several times and moved all my pension each time. NHS to LGPS in Scotland to LGPS in Scotland to LGPS in England then finally to LGPS in Scotland in 2012. 

The final move gave me more years service than I actually had, so I took it, although I had dropped salary at the same time. 

There may have been some value in leaving the English one deferred and starting a new one in Scotland, which would have retained the rule of 85. 

Water under the bridge now. I've a decent pension and happy with my lot...... 

Lemon_dr1zzle

joseph80 said:

Thank you for all your comments and suggestions. I’ve had a read through all my transfer paperwork and cannot see any reference to ‘60th’ or ‘80th’. Just the amount that was being transferred and the amount of Pension it was buying. 

I’m presuming it wasn’t a Club transfer as if it was, the 80th calculation would be used (I think) due to the dates the service relates to. 

I guess I just need to presume it’s correct 🤷‍♀️ but would prefer it if I knew the reasoning behind it. I’m obviously slightly reluctant to ask, as using the 60th calculation works in my favour. 

It’s only club terms if it came from a public sector scheme. 

joseph80

Lemon_dr1zzle said:

joseph80 said:

Thank you for all your comments and suggestions. I’ve had a read through all my transfer paperwork and cannot see any reference to ‘60th’ or ‘80th’. Just the amount that was being transferred and the amount of Pension it was buying. 

I’m presuming it wasn’t a Club transfer as if it was, the 80th calculation would be used (I think) due to the dates the service relates to. 

I guess I just need to presume it’s correct 🤷‍♀️ but would prefer it if I knew the reasoning behind it. I’m obviously slightly reluctant to ask, as using the 60th calculation works in my favour. 

It’s only club terms if it came from a public sector scheme. 

(Some of the following may be slightly different dates to what I have said previously as I realise I had got a bit mixed up with when I originally started at the local authority). 

I started working for a local authority on 01/09/2000. 

TUPE’d to Final Salary in the private sector on 01/04/2001. 

Continued contributing until I (stupidly!) opted out on 30/04/2008. 

Rejoined on 01/04/2013 (which by then had became a Money Purchase Scheme). Left the company on 15/09/2013. 

Joined a local authority on 01/10/2013 paying into Final Salary until in changed to CARE from 01/04/2014.

Transferred in previous (deferred) pension in 2015, although my original request to transfer started in 2013 was delayed due to various mixups at their end. 

Still contributing to date. 

Does any of the above shed any light?

I’m also wondering whether there is a scenario in my circumstances where the 85 rule comes in?? 

hyubh

Lemon_dr1zzle said:

joseph80 said:

Thank you for all your comments and suggestions. I’ve had a read through all my transfer paperwork and cannot see any reference to ‘60th’ or ‘80th’. Just the amount that was being transferred and the amount of Pension it was buying. 

I’m presuming it wasn’t a Club transfer as if it was, the 80th calculation would be used (I think) due to the dates the service relates to. 

I guess I just need to presume it’s correct 🤷‍♀️ but would prefer it if I knew the reasoning behind it. I’m obviously slightly reluctant to ask, as using the 60th calculation works in my favour. 

It’s only club terms if it came from a public sector scheme. 

If a transfer in has resulted in more 60ths reckonable service than possible by being an LGPS member at the time, then that just implies it wasn't an interfund, not Club or non-Club specifically. This is because for any non-LGPS transfer you got a service credit for the version of the scheme you were currently in. For Club transfers specifically that still applies today, e.g. transferring a PCSPS Classic pension, assuming no disqualifying break, would get you a 60ths credit despite Classic being equivalent to pre-08 LGPS.

Lemon_dr1zzle

hyubh said:

Lemon_dr1zzle said:

joseph80 said:

Thank you for all your comments and suggestions. I’ve had a read through all my transfer paperwork and cannot see any reference to ‘60th’ or ‘80th’. Just the amount that was being transferred and the amount of Pension it was buying. 

I’m presuming it wasn’t a Club transfer as if it was, the 80th calculation would be used (I think) due to the dates the service relates to. 

I guess I just need to presume it’s correct 🤷‍♀️ but would prefer it if I knew the reasoning behind it. I’m obviously slightly reluctant to ask, as using the 60th calculation works in my favour. 

It’s only club terms if it came from a public sector scheme. 

If a transfer in has resulted in more 60ths reckonable service than possible by being an LGPS member at the time, then that just implies it wasn't an interfund, not Club or non-Club specifically. This is because for any non-LGPS transfer you got a service credit for the version of the scheme you were currently in. For Club transfers specifically that still applies today, e.g. transferring a PCSPS Classic pension, assuming no disqualifying break, would get you a 60ths credit despite Classic being equivalent to pre-08 LGPS.

OP said I’m presuming it wasn’t club. I was confirming that club only applies to public sector. I am fully aware of how transfers into and out of the LGPS work. 

joseph80

I’m also wondering whether there is a scenario in my circumstances where the 85 rule could come in?? 

Silvertabby

joseph80 said:

I’m also wondering whether there is a scenario in my circumstances where the 85 rule could come in?? 

You have said that your 80th scheme benefits (pre 2008 rules) are only £33 per year with a £101 (round figures) automatic lump sum.

It depends on how your transfers in were applied - but if you do have any R85 protections, they would only apply to this £33 annual pension/£101 lump sum.

joseph80

Silvertabby said:

joseph80 said:

I’m also wondering whether there is a scenario in my circumstances where the 85 rule could come in?? 

You have said that your 80th scheme benefits (pre 2008 rules) are only £33 per year with a £101 (round figures) automatic lump sum.

It depends on how your transfers in were applied - but if you do have any R85 protections, they would only apply to this £33 annual pension/£101 lump sum.

That’s the other bit that doesn’t make sense because my 80th scheme benefits relate to my post 2008 service and my 60th scheme benefits relate to my pre-2008 service 🤷‍♀️. 

I know this is the wrong way round and as far as I can see doesn’t make any sense, but I have worked back from what is shown on my statement and it calculates to be exactly as above to the penny.