No Claims Bonus Queries / Threaten to cancel insurance

gwernybwch

So I have been driving a car for years and have achieved 9 years + no claims bonus from driving my car.

Two years ago I passed my motorbike test and bought two (big bikes) motorbikes. I insured both of the bikes on a 'multi-bike' insurance. This year when the bikes insurance were up for renewal I got some quotes and found that it was cheaper to insure the bikes under two different insurance policies.

When I got the insurance quotes, I put down that I had 9 years + of no claims bonus. I take out the insurance and they ask for my NCB certificate and I send them my NCB certificate from my car insurance. They write back telling me that they can't accept that NCB because it was gained on a car.

So I send them my NCB certificate achieved from my motorbikes. On that they are telling me that even though I didn't make a claim on either motorbike that NCB certificate can only be used once on one of the new policies.

Are they trying to pull my pants down? Surely 'no claims' is 'no claims' regardless of the vehicle that you achieved it on? And can a NCB bonus from a multi-bike policy be used only once.

Furthermore they are now threating to cancel my insurance because they consider that I am in breach of their t&c's. I presume that an insurance company cancelling an insurance policy will have implications for me further down the line?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

DullGreyGuy

gwernybwch said:

So I have been driving a car for years and have achieved 9 years + no claims bonus from driving my car.

Two years ago I passed my motorbike test and bought two motorbikes. I insured both of the bikes on a 'multi-bike' insurance. This year when the bikes insurance were up for renewal I got some quotes and found that it was cheaper to insure the bikes under two different insurance policies.

When I got the insurance quotes, I put down that I had 9 years + of no claims bonus. I take out the insurance and they ask for my NCB certificate and I send them my NCB certificate from my car insurance. They write back telling me that they can't accept that NCB because it was gained on a car.

So I send them my NCB certificate achieved from my motorbikes. On that they are telling me that even though I didn't make a claim on either motorbike that NCB certificate can only be used once on one of the new policies.

Are they trying to pull my pants down? Surely 'no claims' is 'no claims' regardless of the vehicle that you achieved it on? And can a NCB bonus from a multi-bike policy be used only once.

Furthermore they are now threating to cancel my insurance because they consider that I am in breach of their t&c's. I presume that an insurance company cancelling an insurance policy will have implications for me further down the line?

Thanks in advance for any replies.

No claims is a totally illogical thing created by the marketing department and makes no logical sense, especially when you consider NCD Protection. 

Ultimately the industry has broadly agreed on some fairly common rules, but there are exceptions. You need to think of it as an object, it can only be attached to one policy at a time, it cannot be divided, replicated or combined. Get a second vehicle it starts with 0 NCD, get rid of a vehicle and you have a spare NCD sitting around. You can have 30 years NCD and yet have made a claim every other year if you have NCDP. 

Very few true "multi-car" policies exist, most are really multiple policies with a multi-product discount and a harmonised renewal date. As a consequence each vehicle has its own NCD and is less problematic if you decide to independently insure in the future. 

Have never worked on Bike insurance nor done any research into it, that said my gut reaction is that its more likely that its a true multi-bike/fleet policy just as its vastly more common for a single person tot have more than one bike than cars. Ultimately, speak to your former insurer, if they'll issue independent NCDs for each bike you'll be fine. If they say the other firm is correct and there is only 1 NCD then you can only use it on one bike and need to work out which gets more benefit from it.

400ixl

They are correct in the whole. NCD's are typically policy (per car, per bike) exclusive.

Typically insurers will not allow cross NCD between car and bikes. Even if they did, your 9 years is in use on your car policy.

On the bike side, I would check with your current multi vehicle policy whether you have 2 years NCD per bike which would mean that one of the NCD's could be applied to each of the bikes separately.

If they are saying that there is only one NCD for both bikes then that would be a little unusual.

Either way you do not have 9 years NCD to use on either of the bikes.

Aretnap

NCD is a marketing gimmick. Nothing more, nothing less. It started life as a form of loyalty bonus, a way of encouraging customers (especially the good ones who don't make claims) to renew every year, and the idea was that you would only get it if you stuck with the same insurer. 

Well that didn't last long. Insurers realised that if they wanted to attract more customers they would have to offer to match the NCDs that their existing insurers were offering. A bit like Tesco might offer to accept Sainsbury's money off vouchers from time to time - they don't do it because they're under any obligation to accept them, they just think it's a good way of poaching Sainsbury's customers. 

However if you don't have an existing insurer who is offering you a NCD (for example because you're inssurig a second vehicle for the first time) then there's no incentive for a new insurer to offer you a discount. So they don't. Which is basically why you can only use one NCD on one policy at a time. Asking why you can't is a bit like like getting one of those "£10 off your next shop" vouchers from Sainsbury's, then asking why you can't use it twice in two different supermarkets.

gwernybwch

Thanks all for the replies. That has been really useful information.

Regarding them threating to cancel my insurance because they consider that I am in breach of their t&c's. I presume that an insurance company cancelling an insurance policy will have implications for me further down the line?

400ixl

Yes, you would have to declare it when asked.

Better that you cancel the policy and pay the admin fee and potentially take a loss in one hit than have them cancel it and have to declare it for years.

vacheron

gwernybwch said:

Are they trying to pull my pants down? Surely 'no claims' is 'no claims' regardless of the vehicle that you achieved it on? And can a NCB bonus from a multi-bike policy be used only once.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

As I don't think this has been addressed yet, bike and car NCD's aren't interchangable.
Someone could be the worlds best car driver but simultaneously the worlds worst motorbike rider!

I passed my driving test in 1991, but have never had any interest in riding a motorbike, but if I passed my motorbike test next week, I certainly wouldn't want to give my insurer the impression that I had 30 years of prior "experience". 

DullGreyGuy

vacheron said:

gwernybwch said:

Are they trying to pull my pants down? Surely 'no claims' is 'no claims' regardless of the vehicle that you achieved it on? And can a NCB bonus from a multi-bike policy be used only once.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

As I don't think this has been addressed yet, bike and car NCD's aren't interchangable.
Someone could be the worlds best car driver but simultaneously the worlds worst motorbike rider!

I passed my driving test in 1991, but have never had any interest in riding a motorbike, but if I passed my motorbike test next week, I certainly wouldn't want to give my insurer the impression that I had 30 years of prior "experience". 

Thats trying to apply logic to the matter... NCD has nought to do with logic. Some insurers will allow you to cross them over, Direct Line certainly used to, but the same rule applies in terms of you can only transfer your bike NCD to your car if you are no longer using it on a bike policy.

gwernybwch

Just as an update, I contacted my previous 'multibike' policy and they told me that as there was only one POLICY, there should be only one NCB certificate.

I review the policy of Motorbike 1 and it asks "Have you ever been insured in respect of a motor vehicle? If yes, state insurer and policy number" followed by "How many years no claims discount have you earned?". I didn't feel that this was specific enough for me to reasonably understand that the reference to "motor vehicle" was in relation to the type of motor vehicle that I was intending to insure and that the question regarding no claims discount was again in relation to the type of vehicle that I was intending to insure and that any no claims certificate could only be applied to one vehicle.

I ring the insurer to cancel the policy and forthrightly state my case that I should not be subject to cancellation fees. During the conversation the insurer did ask whether I had come a price comparison website. I wondered what on earth that had to do with anything. Anyway my policy is cancelled and I go back on the price comparison website to reinsure the bike. That is then I notice that during the estimate process it does have the message "The NCB.....can only be used on one vehicle at a time".

So I have now cancelled two insurance policies paid their arrangement and cancellation fees. And taken out two new policies based on one policy with no NCB and associated increase in premiums. You lives and learns.......

Thanks for those those that replied, it was greatly appreciated.

gwernybwch

Just as an update on this. After cancelling both of my insurance policies and getting hit for cancellation and other fees, I did make a formal complaint to both insurers that I didn't feel that their statements whilst taking out insurance was specific enough for me to reasonably understand that the reference to "motor vehicle" was in relation to the type of motor vehicle that I was intending to insure and that the question regarding no claims discount was again in relation to the type of vehicle that I was intending to insure and that any no claims certificate could only be applied to one vehicle.

Both considered by complaint but did not uphold it. But as an 'act of goodwill' both insurers did decide to refund my cancellation fees!!!

400ixl

Good to hear you got a partial result out of it.