Update: Court proceedings discontinued - DCB Legal/Euro Car Parks - Defence Help

sparkeytec

I have recently received a CCBC issued 29th Oct 2024.
It is from DCB legal acting on behalf of Euro Car Parks Limited.
However, the claim doesn't have any details about the specific PCN issued apart from it being issued on 23/05/2019
I have emailed a SAR request to Euro Car Parks Limited (DPO@eurocarparks.com) asking for details of the PCN, any details they have about me etc...
They have responded with:
' you provide reasonable evidence of your identity (the ICO recommend Photo ID) and proof of ownership of any vehicle you wish to be included in the search (for example a copy or image of a V5C document)'
But I no longer own the vehicle (sold it about 3 years ago) and therefore no longer have any proof of ownership.
As I have no idea what the PCN details are, photos of proof etc... how can I challenge this? Any advice

KeithP

Do not pursue the SAR.

You are in a better position defending an 'unknown' claim than giving the parking company the opportunity to explain their claim in greater detail.

By all means ask for more details after a Defence has been filed, but not before then.

KeithP

Can you please show us a picture of the Particulars of Claim - with all your personal detail hidden of course.

With a Claim Issue Date of 29th October, you have until Monday 18th November to file an Acknowledgment of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. 

To file an Acknowledgment of Service, follow the guidance in the Dropbox file linked from the second post in the NEWBIES thread.

Having filed an Acknowledgment of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Monday 2nd December 2024 to file a Defence.

That's nearly four weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

To create a Defence, and then file a Defence by email, look again at the second post on the NEWBIES thread - immediately following where you found the Acknowledgment of Service guidance.

Don't miss the deadline for filing an Acknowledgment of Service, nor that for filing a Defence.

Do not try and file a Defence via the MoneyClaimOnline website. Once an Acknowledgment of Service has been filed, the MCOL website should be treated as 'read only'.

sparkeytec

Thanks @KeithP - below is the claim form I have received.
I'll follow your advice and complete the AOS asap

sparkeytec

Hi, I need some help with the defence I am due to submit. The bulk of it will be the template defence copied as-is (as mentioned in the second post in the NEWBIES thread) with my edits to paragraph 3 and details of my defence. Which is where I am a little stuck as there isn't much to go by.
The PCN is from 2019 and at that time my car was still registered at an old address I was no longer at, just one of those things I forgot to do.
I had my insurance etc.. at the correct address just not the V5 doc.
I did correct that in 2022 and I do recall getting a couple of reminders about the PCN which admittedly, I would have just binned.
I don't recall though if any of the letters had photographic evidence of the PCN on my car.
I have asked for these details from Euro Car Parks Ltd but they wouldn't handle my SAR request without proof of ownership of the car which I can't do as I sold it a couple of years ago and therefore no longer have the V5 etc...

So I was thinking of submitting the below as defence and any feedback on it would be much appreciated:


The Defendant has no recollection of the alleged parking incident on the date in question. It was an unremarkable day with nothing memorable about the circumstances, and the Defendant is unable to recall any event that might relate to the claim. The Claimant has failed to provide photographic evidence or any other proof that the Defendant's vehicle was parked in breach of terms, or that a Parking Charge Notice was issued and visible on the vehicle. Without adequate evidence, the Defendant cannot verify the validity of the claim. Furthermore, the Claimant has not demonstrated that sufficient signage or terms were clearly displayed and visible to the Defendant on that day to create a binding contractual obligation. The Defendant also questions the Claimant's right to recover the alleged sums in light of unclear evidence of their legal standing or authority to operate on the land in question.

Coupon-mad

Add the paragraph that starts:

'Regarding the POC"

Search the forum.

Gr1pr

What is your proposal for the ending of paragraph 2. ?

Needing to provide a copy of the V5c is not a data response requirement, it helps if you had it but its largely irrelevant . Proof of ID guidance is on the ICO website regarding GDPR and the requirements for a SAR 

Personally I would leave it until January or February and then email a SAR request to the DPO at ECP enclosing an unredacted picture of the N1SDT plus redacted copies of 2 recent utility bills or similar, leaving your name and current address showing, also mentioning the VRM details plus any PCN references too
 Better to stay in the dark for now, especially due to your paragraph 3

A GDPR request can be made to the DPO at any business for any reason, nothing to do with a V5C or vehicles, its about YOU as a person, the Data subject 

But definitely don't do it for a couple of months, concentrate on these early stages, especially because your defence is due on Monday, in 2 days 

sparkeytec

Thanks @Gr1pr and @Coupon-mad

I've amended a little bit based on the above advice

For paragraph 2, it will now read as:

2. The facts in this defence come from the Defendant's own knowledge and honest belief.  Conversely, the Claimant sets out a cut-and-paste incoherent and sparse statement of case. The POC appear to be in breach of CPR 16.4, 16PD3 and 16PD7, and fail to "state all facts necessary for the purpose of formulating a complete cause of action". The Claimant is seeking interest, however does not state under which contract or terms.   The Defendant is unable, on the basis of the POC, to understand with certainty what case, allegation(s) and what heads of cost are being pursued, making it difficult to respond. However, the vehicle is recognised and it is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper and driver.

For Paragraph 3 (3.1 taken from https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6569082/submitting-defence-to-a-ukpc-claim/p2)

3. The Defendant has no recollection of the alleged parking incident on the date in question. It was an unremarkable day with nothing memorable about the circumstances, and the Defendant is unable to recall any event that might relate to the claim. The Claimant has failed to provide photographic evidence or any other proof that the Defendant's vehicle was parked in breach of terms, or that a Parking Charge Notice was issued and visible on the vehicle. Without adequate evidence, the Defendant cannot verify the validity of the claim. Furthermore, the Claimant has not demonstrated that sufficient signage or terms were clearly displayed and visible to the Defendant on that day to create a binding contractual obligation. The Defendant also questions the Claimant's right to recover the alleged sums in light of unclear evidence of their legal standing or authority to operate on the land in question.

3.1 Referring to the POC: paragraph 1 is denied. The Defendant is not indebted to the Claimant. Paragraph 2 is denied. No PCN was "issued on 23/05/2019" (the date of the visit).  Whilst the Defendant was the keeper and driver, the rest of paragraphs 3 and 4 are denied. The Defendant is not liable and has seen no evidence of a breach of prominent terms.  The quantum is hugely exaggerated (no PCN can be £170 on private land) and there were no damages incurred whatsoever. The Claimant is put to strict proof of all of their allegations.

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My concern was really there isn't much of defence as it was so long ago. And that if I mention lack of photo evidence only for them to provide it further down the line might leave me very little to go by.

Gr1pr

Based on paragraph 3 above, are you sure that you were the driver. ? 

sparkeytec

@Gr1pr - Ah ok, based on it being so long ago and an unremarkable day, I could not confirm if I was the driver or not - if I catch your meaning correctly?

Gr1pr

Read the template defence paragraph 2, the extras, the keeper is not the driver, the keeper is also the driver, or unknown if its an unremarkable day so long ago. 

I have no idea if me or my wife drove to Asda a few weeks ago when she had an NHS appointment there. !

IMHO your 2 proposals contradict each other