Annual leave all used then told some needed for Christmas shutdown - New Job

SomeJohnDoe

My wife started a new job (3 month probation) and was told she had X days annual leave to book from when she started until the end of the year. So she booked all her leave for our holiday away.

Some weeks later, she was then told some annual leave was needed for Christmas shutdown and as she had used up all of her leave, she will be getting 2 days unpaid in Christmas.

Just to be clear, she was not told this prior to booking her leave nor was she provided any policy to say some leave would be used for Christmas shutdown nor was this mentioned in her temp contract. She only received all policy documents after passing her 3 month probation and being made permanent.

So the issue is she booked all her leave without being made aware of all the facts or seeing anywhere in writing that the office is closed during Christmas. HR even approved her leave and didn't think to explain the policy before accepting her leave request.

Where does she stand on this? Advice would be great as we keep bickering about it and we have bills to pay like everyone else!

sammyjammy

Its unfortunate but you say she used the annual leave to go on your holiday so what would she have done if she knew about the Christmas shutdown?  Its unfortunate that they didn't tell her in a timely manner but I don't think it matters, the only thing she can do is ask them if she can use days from next years leave year.

lincroft1710

sammyjammy said:

Its unfortunate but you say she used the annual leave to go on your holiday so what would she have done if she knew about the Christmas shutdown?  Its unfortunate that they didn't tell her in a timely manner but I don't think it matters, the only thing she can do is ask them if she can use days from next years leave year.

My thoughts exactly.


Your wife would be ill advised to create too much of a fuss about this. She has well under 2 years service and could easily be shown the door.

Marcon

SomeJohnDoe said:

My wife started a new job (3 month probation) and was told she had X days annual leave to book from when she started until the end of the year. So she booked all her leave for our holiday away.

Some weeks later, she was then told some annual leave was needed for Christmas shutdown and as she had used up all of her leave, she will be getting 2 days unpaid in Christmas.

Just to be clear, she was not told this prior to booking her leave nor was she provided any policy to say some leave would be used for Christmas shutdown nor was this mentioned in her temp contract. She only received all policy documents after passing her 3 month probation and being made permanent.

So the issue is she booked all her leave without being made aware of all the facts or seeing anywhere in writing that the office is closed during Christmas. HR even approved her leave and didn't think to explain the policy before accepting her leave request.

Where does she stand on this? Advice would be great as we keep bickering about it and we have bills to pay like everyone else!

Stop bickering! It won't solve the issue and will make you both fed up.

Three choices:

• throw toys out of pram and resign (probably not a great idea, even if tempted to do so)
• accept she won't be paid for two days in December and budget accordingly, albeit with little time to do so - might be a good time to make informed use of credit cards, especially any which could be settled out of January's salary payment
• see if she can filch a couple of days in advance from next year's leave entitlement

SomeJohnDoe

sammyjammy said:

Its unfortunate but you say she used the annual leave to go on your holiday so what would she have done if she knew about the Christmas shutdown?  Its unfortunate that they didn't tell her in a timely manner but I don't think it matters, the only thing she can do is ask them if she can use days from next years leave year.

In all honesty, we booked a longer holiday because we believed she had the time available. We know some employers use annual leave to close the office so we're not fussed about that really, just the fact we didn't know that was the policy because she wasn't provided with one. As such, December is going to be a smaller pay check then we had anticipated.

I would have thought as she wasn't made aware, wasn't shown any policy and didn't have it mentioned in her contract, she had a fighting chance in some way as HR did admit she should have been told.

Hoenir

SomeJohnDoe said:

sammyjammy said:

Its unfortunate but you say she used the annual leave to go on your holiday so what would she have done if she knew about the Christmas shutdown?  Its unfortunate that they didn't tell her in a timely manner but I don't think it matters, the only thing she can do is ask them if she can use days from next years leave year.

In all honesty, we booked a longer holiday because we believed she had the time available. We know some employers use annual leave to close the office so we're not fussed about that really, just the fact we didn't know that was the policy because she wasn't provided with one. As such, December is going to be a smaller pay check then we had anticipated.

I would have thought as she wasn't made aware, wasn't shown any policy and didn't have it mentioned in her contract, she had a fighting chance in some way as HR did admit she should have been told.

Did she bother to ask what the Xmas office arrangements were? 

TELLIT01

Don't make a mountain out of a molehill or you and your wife could have more than a couple of days unpaid to worry about.

DullGreyGuy

SomeJohnDoe said:

My wife started a new job (3 month probation) and was told she had X days annual leave to book from when she started until the end of the year. So she booked all her leave for our holiday away.

Some weeks later, she was then told some annual leave was needed for Christmas shutdown and as she had used up all of her leave, she will be getting 2 days unpaid in Christmas.

Just to be clear, she was not told this prior to booking her leave nor was she provided any policy to say some leave would be used for Christmas shutdown nor was this mentioned in her temp contract. She only received all policy documents after passing her 3 month probation and being made permanent.

So the issue is she booked all her leave without being made aware of all the facts or seeing anywhere in writing that the office is closed during Christmas. HR even approved her leave and didn't think to explain the policy before accepting her leave request.

Where does she stand on this? Advice would be great as we keep bickering about it and we have bills to pay like everyone else!

So she had, for arguments sake, 10 days by the end of the year. 

If she has taken them before the end of the year, which clearly she has, then they have been generous and allowed her to take holiday before she has earned it. I wouldn't be complaining that I hadn't thought about Xmas and forgot to leave some days for the period if it's just 2 days unpaid holiday. 

There are many that close down for 2 weeks or more over Xmas so 2 days could have been a hell of a lot worse. 

badmemory

And looking for the silver lining - she may lose 2 days pay but also 2 days tax and NI, so in effect only around 1.5 days pay.

Savvy_Sue

SomeJohnDoe said:

I would have thought as she wasn't made aware, wasn't shown any policy and didn't have it mentioned in her contract, she had a fighting chance in some way as HR did admit she should have been told.

The ONLY chance she's got is to ask nicely if 2 days can be taken from next year's leave allowance. 

Dear HR

Thank you for advising that I will have to take 2 days' unpaid leave to cover the Christmas closure. I understand that I should have been told about this sooner than I was, and because I was not aware that I would need to book this time as leave, I did book a longer holiday in (whatever month it was) than would otherwise have been possible. 

I wonder if it would be possible for my leave allowance next year to be reduced by 2 days to cover this period? This is an exceptional request, and would mean that I was taking (X + Y) days leave over my first 15 months. 

I do enjoy working at Bloggs and Son, and will of course make sure that this situation does not arise again. 

Love and kisses 

Jane Doe. 

X = 3 month's leave allowance, ie 1/4 of Y
Y = 1 year's leave allowance

SomeJohnDoe

Thanks for your comments all. You're all right, its not worth the fuss. She knew she was going to be made perm, paperwork was just a formality, so that wasn't something we were worried about (using more days leave than currently earned).

She was offered to take it from next years leave but we'd rather save that for next year, so we'll just take the 2 days off unpaid. Silver lining is this is her first proper job and is something we've learned from and will take forward so not all too bad!