PIP review/assessment - Awarded ZERO points and sent threatening letter

nero33

Hi, a very close neighbour of ours who has been on PIP for about 5 years sent off her assessment 18 months ago.

Finally had a telephone assessment a few weeks ago and the result came through a couple of days ago..

She went from receiving Standard Rate (Daily living) and Mobility (Daily living), to ZERO in both.

I had a quick look at the letter and it said things like 'you don't have issue x y z' or 'you have not seen a consultant about x' or 'there is no treatment planned so you're fine' or   etc etc.

She wasn't working when first claimed PIP but started a FT admin job last year which is WFH and the DWP essentially they she can work so she must be absolutely fine etc

3 weeks before the telephone assessment she sent off a letter to DWP which explained a new health condition, and it was done in the format of the assessment form.

She says they did mention this new condition, even though she tried to bring it into the conversation, almost as if they had not looked at it.

They finally say say that all this means you were overpaid and they will claim it back etc.  This has terrified her and she's not sleeping well since then.

nero33

(Continued)

The letter is very very hostile, basically accusing her of lying or saying you are completely fine etc.  

Is this a standard type of refusal reply? Is it done to intimate claimants from not appealling? I read how carers were treated appallingly by DWP recently during the last Govt and I've seen this Govt say they want to slash disability benefits and get people into work etc

She is pretty much distraught. I'm shocked and feel partly responsible because I helped her complete the assessment form.

Any advice that you can give us? I know she can appeal but she's feeling a bit broken and I've offered to find out as much as I can't with how to proceed from here.

A apologise for this very long list but I'm as stunned by the refusal as much as her. Thanks

tacpot12

It sounds somewhat harsh, but they are never written to be warm and friendly. I don't think it is done to stop people taking further action, but if they consider that the person has wasted the department's time by applying for PIP, they might be more threatening.

To help them, you need to help them focus on making a list of all the mistakes that were made in the assessment, and have them request a Mandatory Reconsideration. I would write a letter and provide the list of mistakes.

The fact that she can work doesn't necessarily impact on her eligibility for PIP. Sometimes the nature of the work, and the ability to do it from home provides just the flexibility that disabled people need to hold down a job. Write a separate paragraph in the letter about how the work is flexibible in ways that allow them to cope with their condition. You need to explain why the work they do is different to the mobility or daily living activities that are the focus of the PIP assessment process.

nero33

tacpot12 said:

It sounds somewhat harsh, but they are never written to be warm and friendly. I don't think it is done to stop people taking further action, but if they consider that the person has wasted the department's time by applying for PIP, they might be more threatening.

To help them, you need to help them focus on making a list of all the mistakes that were made in the assessment, and have them request a Mandatory Reconsideration. I would write a letter and provide the list of mistakes.

The fact that she can work doesn't necessarily impact on her eligibility for PIP. Sometimes the nature of the work, and the ability to do it from home provides just the flexibility that disabled people need to hold down a job. Write a separate paragraph in the letter about how the work is flexibible in ways that allow them to cope with their condition. You need to explain why the work they do is different to the mobility or daily living activities that are the focus of the PIP assessment process.

Thanks, the threat of having to return money is her immediate fear.  The DWP said PIP ended on 22 Oct and then they talk about reclaiming overpayment. If it has ended, then surely there's no overpayment?  Unless they want to go back further??

peteuk

From a PIP point of view (and I dont agree with this 100%) but when it comes to writing a report, if there is ni evidence of medication or specialist care then its easier to support a zero point report than to write a scoring report.  The report would have been seen by a DM.

Atthe point of the decision then the PIP payments would stop.  The original assessment and decision would stand until the review, so there shouldn’t be an overpayment.

As noted PIP isn’t about not being able to work but the activists assessed.  If the assessor and DM agrees that the conditions are not to the point of medication or specialist care then it cast doubts on the claims made. Unless there is a reason for not taking medication,. 

You have to remember that its nit having the conditions that qualifies you for PIP, but the effects it has,

nero33

peteuk said:

From a PIP point of view (and I dont agree with this 100%) but when it comes to writing a report, if there is ni evidence of medication or specialist care then its easier to support a zero point report than to write a scoring report.  The report would have been seen by a DM.

Atthe point of the decision then the PIP payments would stop.  The original assessment and decision would stand until the review, so there shouldn’t be an overpayment.

As noted PIP isn’t about not being able to work but the activists assessed.  If the assessor and DM agrees that the conditions are not to the point of medication or specialist care then it cast doubts on the claims made. Unless there is a reason for not taking medication,. 

You have to remember that its nit having the conditions that qualifies you for PIP, but the effects it has,

Thanks for that.  Who is the 'DM'?

peteuk

nero33 said:

peteuk said:

From a PIP point of view (and I dont agree with this 100%) but when it comes to writing a report, if there is ni evidence of medication or specialist care then its easier to support a zero point report than to write a scoring report.  The report would have been seen by a DM.

Atthe point of the decision then the PIP payments would stop.  The original assessment and decision would stand until the review, so there shouldn’t be an overpayment.

As noted PIP isn’t about not being able to work but the activists assessed.  If the assessor and DM agrees that the conditions are not to the point of medication or specialist care then it cast doubts on the claims made. Unless there is a reason for not taking medication,. 

You have to remember that its nit having the conditions that qualifies you for PIP, but the effects it has,

Thanks for that.  Who is the 'DM'?

Decision Maker (DM) they look at the evidence and questionnaire, along with the assessment report. Ultimately they make the decision on the claim.  

The next step is to complain via a mandatory reconsideration and the take it to tribuneral.

Indie_Kid

Your neighbour needs to request a copy of the report that was used to determine the points. 

Does your neighbour have any adjustments / anything from access to work? 

nero33

Indie_Kid said:

Your neighbour needs to request a copy of the report that was used to determine the points. 

Does your neighbour have any adjustments / anything from access to work? 

I haven't been able to speak the family for a week.

They haven't proceeded very far, other than download a CRMR1 form which I had a look at last night.  They've not phoned for a detailed report yet

Because of limited time to submit this, would it be ok to fill this CRMR1 form to get into the appeal system, explain they've not received the DWP report or any supporting evidence from GP etc?  And that they'll send this once they've got it?

Looking online, the DWP are most likely to reject this reconsideration anyway so they can put more effort into an appeal to independent tribunal?

Any advice would be appreciated as I'll be helping them with the CRMR1 form which we'll post off tomorrow.

Thanks

Spoonie_Turtle

Statistically Mandatory Reconsiderations succeed a minority of the time (somewhere between ¼ and ⅓ last time I checked), but that still means a decent chunk do.  The better and more detailed the MR request, with what descriptors they should score and why, the better the chance of succeeding.  And a good MR request means less work to do if it does have to go to tribunal.

But unfortunately it doesn't sound like that's going to happen here.

The decision letter contains reasoning that will almost certainly be based on the assessment report, so although a copy of it can be helpful it's not entirely necessary.  She can still refute the reasoning in the letter.  And the previous award (if she agreed with it) can guide towards which descriptors she should score.

I note she informed them of a new condition using a form - did she just detail the new condition on that, or did she include the impact of it with everything else?  Because if the former and the assessors only looked at that and not the previous form, that could go some way to explaining it (doesn't excuse it, they should believe disabled people's accounts about our own lives - nobody would choose to go through this process for fun even if it worked the way they say it's supposed to) but it wouldn't have helped.

… basically accusing her of lying or saying you are completely fine etc.  

Yes that's unfortunately pretty standard.  Even with medical evidence.

nero33

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Statistically Mandatory Reconsiderations succeed a minority of the time (somewhere between ¼ and ⅓ last time I checked), but that still means a decent chunk do.  The better and more detailed the MR request, with what descriptors they should score and why, the better the chance of succeeding.  And a good MR request means less work to do if it does have to go to tribunal.

But unfortunately it doesn't sound like that's going to happen here.

The decision letter contains reasoning that will almost certainly be based on the assessment report, so although a copy of it can be helpful it's not entirely necessary.  She can still refute the reasoning in the letter.  And the previous award (if she agreed with it) can guide towards which descriptors she should score.

I note she informed them of a new condition using a form - did she just detail the new condition on that, or did she include the impact of it with everything else?  Because if the former and the assessors only looked at that and not the previous form, that could go some way to explaining it (doesn't excuse it, they should believe disabled people's accounts about our own lives - nobody would choose to go through this process for fun even if it worked the way they say it's supposed to) but it wouldn't have helped.

… basically accusing her of lying or saying you are completely fine etc.  

Yes that's unfortunately pretty standard.  Even with medical evidence.

Thank you so much.

That's very very helpful. I think we'll submit a respectable CRMR1 form. Not just a token gesture one to get into the system.

The new condition mirrored the format of the original assessment form, so answered the questions as if it had been asked on the original assessment form.  I believe they gave detailed responses as they could.

But I have asked them to make that call to request the report first thing in the morning