Three sending details to debt collectors after fraud!!

rm993

Hi there,

For anyone that has dealt with fraud, I feel your frustration.

Context - Three sent a letter to pay an unpaid bill but the contract was not taken out by us.

After providing details, three said its NOT fraud which is crazy, we got the letter late September. I called Three and they could give NO details of the account because there was no phone number so it seemed like the bills asking for money was fake! 

Now they have said we have defaulted and are going to send details to debt collection agency - only now can we access this phantom account, no phone number of email matches the details on our side.

I have literal proof the parcel not being delivered as DPD were kind enough to share the tracking number - it was photo of the parcel OUTSIDE the door whereas DPD state a valid delivery must be inside the doorway. 

Just looking for advice from anyone who has been through similar and how you solved it!

Nasqueron

I'm confused here:

You say a phone contract was taken out in your name - so why did you not deal with this appearing on your credit file or the letters you would have got? DPD left the phone outside your door, presumably the thief planned this as they had the delivery tracker and could wait?

Report to action fraud, give the crime reference to three and raise an official complaint

born_again

rm993 said:

Hi there,

For anyone that has dealt with fraud, I feel your frustration.

Context - Three sent a letter to pay an unpaid bill but the contract was not taken out by us.

After providing details, three said its NOT fraud which is crazy, we got the letter late September. I called Three and they could give NO details of the account because there was no phone number so it seemed like the bills asking for money was fake! 

Now they have said we have defaulted and are going to send details to debt collection agency - only now can we access this phantom account, no phone number of email matches the details on our side.

I have literal proof the parcel not being delivered as DPD were kind enough to share the tracking number - it was photo of the parcel OUTSIDE the door whereas DPD state a valid delivery must be inside the doorway. 

Just looking for advice from anyone who has been through similar and how you solved it!

If that is your door be very careful using that claim. No matter what DPD say on inside a doorway. They have proof it was delivered to your address.

Did you actually get the phone or was it stolen? If stolen did you get a CRN from the police?

sourcrates

I think you need to clarify events a little more for us, but basic rule of thumb if its identity fraud, get a crime number from Action Fraud, and pass those details onto 3, in a written complaint as advised above, and to any collector that contacts you.

voluted

rm993 said:

I have literal proof the parcel not being delivered

Sorry, but they have literal proof that the parcel was delivered to your front door. You're going to have a hard time convincing a judge it wasn't.

savergrant

Presumably three initially contacted you to say that your monthly payment had failed and was now overdue?
Do you have a phone contract with three? Or have you previously been a customer?
It sounds as though someone has placed an order using your name and address, a bogus method of payment but a phone number or email that they have access to. They've then taken a chance on you not being at home when the parcel was delivered(they may have chosen the front doorstep as a designated safe place). 
Have three told you when the order was placed?
It does boggle to me to think that a high value item could be left on a doorstep but I also find it quite concerning when proof of delivery of high value postable items shows them sticking halfway through a letterbox.

voluted

savergrant said:

Presumably three initially contacted you to say that your monthly payment had failed and was now overdue?
Do you have a phone contract with three? Or have you previously been a customer?
It sounds as though someone has placed an order using your name and address, a bogus method of payment but a phone number or email that they have access to. They've then taken a chance on you not being at home when the parcel was delivered(they may have chosen the front doorstep as a designated safe place). 
Have three told you when the order was placed?
It does boggle to me to think that a high value item could be left on a doorstep but I also find it quite concerning when proof of delivery of high value postable items shows them sticking halfway through a letterbox.

It's a hangover from the madness of COVID that we still seem to allow pictures of things at the door to be proof that they were delivered.

I live in quite a nice area but on a main road. Anyone could drive past, spot a parcel, and pinch it and I'd be buggered if a photo of it at my door is proof of delivery.

On the flip side, anyone could falsely claim that devilery outside their house has not been delivered and get a free phone. Swings and roundabouts

Nasqueron

voluted said:

rm993 said:

I have literal proof the parcel not being delivered

Sorry, but they have literal proof that the parcel was delivered to your front door. You're going to have a hard time convincing a judge it wasn't.

That simply isn't true, the sending firm is liable for the lost package (and they can take it up with the courier as needed) if the package is left somewhere other than per agreed terms e.g. handed to customer with signature or an agreed safe space. If the parcel is left on the front door and stolen, tough luck on the operator, the CRA 2015 requires the retailor to get the goods to your hand, in good condition and they are responsible for a refund or replacement

savergrant

Nasqueron said:

voluted said:

rm993 said:

I have literal proof the parcel not being delivered

Sorry, but they have literal proof that the parcel was delivered to your front door. You're going to have a hard time convincing a judge it wasn't.

That simply isn't true, the sending firm is liable for the lost package (and they can take it up with the courier as needed) if the package is left somewhere other than per agreed terms e.g. handed to customer with signature or an agreed safe space. If the parcel is left on the front door and stolen, tough luck on the operator, the CRA 2015 requires the retailor to get the goods to your hand, in good condition and they are responsible for a refund or replacement

The problem comes if a fraudster sets up an 'agreed safe space' which isn't safe at all. As far as the carrier is concerned the addressee has taken responsibility for the package as long as they have done what is asked of them, ie delivered at the arranged time and left on doorstep as requested. How would they be expected to know that the person accessing the tracking details was not the addressee?
That is assuming that the person who made the fraudulent purchase is the same person who removed the box from the doorstep which seems likely.

Who is the victim of the fraud? It seems to me that if someone impersonated me to make purchases on credit I'm the victim, but if someone impersonates my bank or provider to get me to transfer money or send items to them I'm still the victim, which seems a little one-sided.

Nasqueron

savergrant said:

Nasqueron said:

voluted said:

rm993 said:

I have literal proof the parcel not being delivered

Sorry, but they have literal proof that the parcel was delivered to your front door. You're going to have a hard time convincing a judge it wasn't.

That simply isn't true, the sending firm is liable for the lost package (and they can take it up with the courier as needed) if the package is left somewhere other than per agreed terms e.g. handed to customer with signature or an agreed safe space. If the parcel is left on the front door and stolen, tough luck on the operator, the CRA 2015 requires the retailor to get the goods to your hand, in good condition and they are responsible for a refund or replacement

The problem comes if a fraudster sets up an 'agreed safe space' which isn't safe at all. As far as the carrier is concerned the addressee has taken responsibility for the package as long as they have done what is asked of them, ie delivered at the arranged time and left on doorstep as requested. How would they be expected to know that the person accessing the tracking details was not the addressee?
That is assuming that the person who made the fraudulent purchase is the same person who removed the box from the doorstep which seems likely.

Who is the victim of the fraud? It seems to me that if someone impersonated me to make purchases on credit I'm the victim, but if someone impersonates my bank or provider to get me to transfer money or send items to them I'm still the victim, which seems a little one-sided.

You can't set a safe space on DPD as "leave on my front door" - it has to be things like a locked mailbox, a porch that can be closed on the latch etc. Again, under the CRA2015, the seller must put the goods in your hands, via their agent, or in an agreed safe space, if the safe space isn't agreed or isn't the one recorded, then again, OP is not liable for the phone, nor can they be assumed to have received it.