Failed Apple MacBook Pro - Consumer Rights and discussions with John Lewis

chatsworth999

Hi,

I purchased a Mac 2.5 years ago from John Lewis, which is now dead.  Requires a new logic board at a repair cost of £589.  The Mac cost £1,159, with the equivalent model now nearer £1,400.

I have attempted to get a repair or replacement from JL, on the basis that the Mac is not of satisfactory quality and has not lasted a reasonable amount of time.  Citizen's Advice have a useful analogy about a cheap v expensive kettle and how long you might expect them to perform.

I have plenty of Apple products across a family of 5, and know that this product's performance is not up to the usual standards, given its cost.

JL have told me that I have no consumer rights because it is out of warranty and the Mac has not had a previous repair.  I asked them to share with me their legal position / point me to the provisions in the Act, but are unable or willing to do so.

Their position seems strange to me.  They may be correct, or potentially just trying to fob me off.  I could not see anything across several different articles (MSE, Citizen Advice or Gov websites) that supported their position.

I am minded to put in a Small Claim on the basis that an expensive laptop should last longer than 2.5 years.

Not had anything like this fail so quickly before, therefore unsure where I actually stand.  Any advice appreciated.  Many thanks.

Zinger549

Have you had a report done stating what the issue is. Who told you it was the logic board?

zoob

Is the Mac used for any business use? 

DullGreyGuy

chatsworth999 said:

I purchased a Mac 2.5 years ago from John Lewis, which is now dead.  Requires a new logic board at a repair cost of £589.  The Mac cost £1,159, with the equivalent model now nearer £1,400.

Guessing this was one of the odd M2 13" MacBook Pro's that were basically the old laptop with the new innards and the Touch Bar still there? Not really sure there is a direct replacement, the M3 13" MacBook Air is probably the closest which is £1,099 retail. 

chatsworth999 said:

I purchased a Mac 2.5 years ago from John Lewis, which is now dead.  Requires a new logic board at a repair cost of £589.  The Mac cost £1,159, with the equivalent model now nearer £1,400.

I have attempted to get a repair or replacement from JL, on the basis that the Mac is not of satisfactory quality and has not lasted a reasonable amount of time.  Citizen's Advice have a useful analogy about a cheap v expensive kettle and how long you might expect them to perform.

I have plenty of Apple products across a family of 5, and know that this product's performance is not up to the usual standards, given its cost.

JL have told me that I have no consumer rights because it is out of warranty and the Mac has not had a previous repair.  I asked them to share with me their legal position / point me to the provisions in the Act, but are unable or willing to do so.

Having not had a previous repair you can express a preference for repair, replace or refund (noting refund will be reduced from price paid to reflect use before the fault) but ultimately the decision is theirs and they can ignore your preference if another resolution is notably cheaper for them.

As the item is over 6 months old its up to you to prove your allegations, this would normally be done with an engineers report that identifies why it has failed, opines on if this was a reasonable life span and considers the cost of repair. It's not clear if you've just gone to Apple and been told that this what needs replacing and a price or something else? 

The analogy from CAB needs to be expanded though... cheap -v- expensive kettle doesn't consider the third option of the bleeding edge item where you're paying a premium for new tech rather than higher quality. 

Assuming there isn't another reason for rejection it's probably worth escalating the complaint in JL, having had personal experience with their Executive Complaints team, dont expect a massive improvement! For "use" JL seem to use a straight line 72 month model so if the MBP is exactly 2.5 years/30 months old their refund would be £676. Given the repair estimate it's borderline if they'd repair it and hope it stays good or write it off to draw a line under the matter. 

Ergates

Zinger549 said:

Have you had a report done stating what the issue is. Who told you it was the logic board?

Given they have a quote for a repair, I would assume "yes".

DullGreyGuy

Ergates said:

Zinger549 said:

Have you had a report done stating what the issue is. Who told you it was the logic board?

Given they have a quote for a repair, I would assume "yes".

A quote for a repair is totally different from saying if the logic board failed because it was submerged in water, had a faulty CPU or had dry solder which is reasonable after this timescale.

chatsworth999

Zinger549 said:

Have you had a report done stating what the issue is. Who told you it was the logic board?

DullGreyGuy said:

Ergates said:

Zinger549 said:

Have you had a report done stating what the issue is. Who told you it was the logic board?

Given they have a quote for a repair, I would assume "yes".

A quote for a repair is totally different from saying if the logic board failed because it was submerged in water, had a faulty CPU or had dry solder which is reasonable after this timescale.

Took to an Apple store and they prepared a report, having tried to start the machine, use a different power source than the laptop's battery.  They recommended the logic board be changed.  The report also notes the laptop's cosmetic condition which is all good - it wasn't submerged in water, which I presume they would be able to tell when they look inside the machine. 

chatsworth999

DullGreyGuy said:

chatsworth999 said:

I purchased a Mac 2.5 years ago from John Lewis, which is now dead.  Requires a new logic board at a repair cost of £589.  The Mac cost £1,159, with the equivalent model now nearer £1,400.

Guessing this was one of the odd M2 13" MacBook Pro's that were basically the old laptop with the new innards and the Touch Bar still there? Not really sure there is a direct replacement, the M3 13" MacBook Air is probably the closest which is £1,099 retail. 

chatsworth999 said:

I purchased a Mac 2.5 years ago from John Lewis, which is now dead.  Requires a new logic board at a repair cost of £589.  The Mac cost £1,159, with the equivalent model now nearer £1,400.

I have attempted to get a repair or replacement from JL, on the basis that the Mac is not of satisfactory quality and has not lasted a reasonable amount of time.  Citizen's Advice have a useful analogy about a cheap v expensive kettle and how long you might expect them to perform.

I have plenty of Apple products across a family of 5, and know that this product's performance is not up to the usual standards, given its cost.

JL have told me that I have no consumer rights because it is out of warranty and the Mac has not had a previous repair.  I asked them to share with me their legal position / point me to the provisions in the Act, but are unable or willing to do so.

Having not had a previous repair you can express a preference for repair, replace or refund (noting refund will be reduced from price paid to reflect use before the fault) but ultimately the decision is theirs and they can ignore your preference if another resolution is notably cheaper for them.

As the item is over 6 months old its up to you to prove your allegations, this would normally be done with an engineers report that identifies why it has failed, opines on if this was a reasonable life span and considers the cost of repair. It's not clear if you've just gone to Apple and been told that this what needs replacing and a price or something else? 

The analogy from CAB needs to be expanded though... cheap -v- expensive kettle doesn't consider the third option of the bleeding edge item where you're paying a premium for new tech rather than higher quality. 

Assuming there isn't another reason for rejection it's probably worth escalating the complaint in JL, having had personal experience with their Executive Complaints team, dont expect a massive improvement! For "use" JL seem to use a straight line 72 month model so if the MBP is exactly 2.5 years/30 months old their refund would be £676. Given the repair estimate it's borderline if they'd repair it and hope it stays good or write it off to draw a line under the matter. 

Was a report from Apple when I went to try understand what the issue was.  I can take to somebody independent, who can confirm the same problem.  Reasonable life span is subjective - a quick google and generally the view is 3 to 8 years, 4 to 7 years.  I get the sense that an independent inspection would suggest at 2.5 years it has failed early, particularly in light of the machine's cosmetic condition.

I am done with JL.  They have had three chances to resolve and I made it clear I would go to Small Claims court on the several emails back and forth.  The guy was rude / patronising.  Thanks for your input.

Ergates

chatsworth999 said:

Hi,

I purchased a Mac 2.5 years ago from John Lewis, which is now dead.  Requires a new logic board at a repair cost of £589.  The Mac cost £1,159, with the equivalent model now nearer £1,400.

I have attempted to get a repair or replacement from JL, on the basis that the Mac is not of satisfactory quality and has not lasted a reasonable amount of time.  Citizen's Advice have a useful analogy about a cheap v expensive kettle and how long you might expect them to perform.

I have plenty of Apple products across a family of 5, and know that this product's performance is not up to the usual standards, given its cost.

JL have told me that I have no consumer rights because it is out of warranty and the Mac has not had a previous repair.  I asked them to share with me their legal position / point me to the provisions in the Act, but are unable or willing to do so.

Their position seems strange to me.  They may be correct, or potentially just trying to fob me off.  I could not see anything across several different articles (MSE, Citizen Advice or Gov websites) that supported their position.

I am minded to put in a Small Claim on the basis that an expensive laptop should last longer than 2.5 years.

Not had anything like this fail so quickly before, therefore unsure where I actually stand.  Any advice appreciated.  Many thanks.

The only reason you wouldn't "have" consumer rights here is if you are not a consumer.  Warranties are over and above your consumer rights, so it being out of warranty is irrelevant.

A laptop should, under normal use patterns, definitely last longer than 2.5 years.

DullGreyGuy

chatsworth999 said:
 it wasn't submerged in water, which I presume they would be able to tell when they look inside the machine. 

They look in the headphone socket, there is a moisture exposure indicator there. Obviously sure there is some scenario where it could get wet without it triggering but it's the basic in store test when looking if to swap out a device etc.

Many retailers won't accept the Apple report as it only states what's failed rather than opining on why its failed or if its reasonable for it to have failed in the timescale. Some here have reported success with it though.