First company car

Jaco70

mlz1413 said:

Can you take the money as a dividend and buy the car as a personal vehicle,  so no BIK ?
Tax on dividend is only once rather than yearly.

Thanks mlz1413. Yes I could do this, but taking extra dividends always comes with a big personal tax bill, which is why I was considering purchasing through the business.

I will probably bin the idea for the time being at least. 

Once more cars are either pure EV, or are hybrids with longer electric range, like the newer Range Rovers, I imagine the chancellor will have to up the BIK percentage on them to balance the books. So I will probably carry on buying my own cars.

Grumpy_chap

Jaco70 said:

Once more cars are either pure EV, or are hybrids with longer electric range, like the newer Range Rovers, I imagine the chancellor will have to up the BIK percentage on them to balance the books. 

The Budget confirmed BIK on EV will remain low until 2029-30
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-14020095/The-Budget-doubled-EVs-Chancellor-promises-low-BiK-rates-cheaper-road-tax-chargers.html

Jaco70

Grumpy_chap said:

Jaco70 said:

Once more cars are either pure EV, or are hybrids with longer electric range, like the newer Range Rovers, I imagine the chancellor will have to up the BIK percentage on them to balance the books. 

The Budget confirmed BIK on EV will remain low until 2029-30
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/electriccars/article-14020095/The-Budget-doubled-EVs-Chancellor-promises-low-BiK-rates-cheaper-road-tax-chargers.html

Oh well, that seems very fair. 2030 is still quite a long way ahead, so it should persuade more people to go the electric route 👍

Exodi

Jaco70 said:

I would never have given any thought to buying a ‘gas guzzler’ on the company, but I’ve heard that the BIK on hybrids is way lower, although I don’t really know any thing more concrete than that.

I find this a really strange comment as you simultaneously acknowledge the car as a 'gas guzzler' yet unironically intent on purchasing one?

Jaco70 said:
my sister has a company Mercedes EV, and she said the costs of ownership are negligible.

However, I just fancied a Range Rover, rather than actually needing one, and I’m not quite ready to take the leap to pure electric when we only have one car in the household. 

I drive an EV and this just sounds like the typical objections I see whipped up on the spot by (usually older) people who are ultimately afraid of change. It reminds me of the excuses contrived by manual car drivers adamant that they prefer manual (despite typically never haven driven an automatic - until which time they do and swiftly change their mind).

You mentioned at the start that you have "a small company-owned van, and we have a personally owned car for my wife". Are you intending to sell both then or are you suggesting that you need two ICE cars as back ups?

FWIW's we drive my EV on business contract hire as our main family car, its range is ~250 miles. The typical objection to this is 'b-b-but what if I want to drive 450 miles?' to which I ask when was the last time they did a 450 mile journey, where the response is usually along the lines of 'I can't remember, but the point is, I could if I wanted!'. Then false compromise is made by vague comments like 'I'd drive an EV if the range was 500 or 1000 miles' .

My previous car was a hybrid - a Toyota Corolla Touring Spots Icon Tech, for the same car, list price £31,560, BIK of 25% = car cash equivalent of £7,890. Tax at 40% on this was £3,156, or £263 per month out my pay packet.

Compare this to my current car - a MG5 EV Trophy Long Range, list price £33,985, BIK of 2% = car cash equivalent of £679.70. Tax at 40% on this is £271.88, or £22.66 per month out my pay packet.

So yeah, over 90% less in Tax, or a personal saving of £240 per month. Then on top of that, electric miles are significantly cheaper than petrol miles... charging 0-100 costs me about £4 on a home EV tariff, which over 250 miles works out to 1.6p per mile. I found my ICE to be nearly 10x this.

But I don't think anyone considers this because any (usually older) person you speak to about EV's is absolutely convinced they're blowing up all over the place, you can't make it to the supermarket without charging twice, or something about infrastructure not being there (which is largely meaningless unless you're doing regular long journeys, as most people charge it overnight at home). 

If there was anything to gain from my rant, it's at least give EV's a fair hearing. Not just from a 'save the planet' standpoint (which you seem to acknowledge, although ironically), but also because the savings can be massive.

Jaco70

Exodi said:

Jaco70 said:

I would never have given any thought to buying a ‘gas guzzler’ on the company, but I’ve heard that the BIK on hybrids is way lower, although I don’t really know any thing more concrete than that.

I find this a really strange comment as you simultaneously acknowledge the car as a 'gas guzzler' yet unironically intent on purchasing one?

Jaco70 said:
my sister has a company Mercedes EV, and she said the costs of ownership are negligible.

However, I just fancied a Range Rover, rather than actually needing one, and I’m not quite ready to take the leap to pure electric when we only have one car in the household. 

I drive an EV and this just sounds like the typical objections I see whipped up on the spot by (usually older) people who are ultimately afraid of change. It reminds me of the excuses contrived by manual car drivers adamant that they prefer manual (despite typically never haven driven an automatic - until which time they do and swiftly change their mind).

You mentioned at the start that you have "a small company-owned van, and we have a personally owned car for my wife". Are you intending to sell both then or are you suggesting that you need two ICE cars as back ups?

FWIW's we drive my EV on business contract hire as our main family car, its range is ~250 miles. The typical objection to this is 'b-b-but what if I want to drive 450 miles?' to which I ask when was the last time they did a 450 mile journey, where the response is usually along the lines of 'I can't remember, but the point is, I could if I wanted!'. Then false compromise is made by vague comments like 'I'd drive an EV if the range was 500 or 1000 miles' .

My previous car was a hybrid - a Toyota Corolla Touring Spots Icon Tech, for the same car, list price £31,560, BIK of 25% = car cash equivalent of £7,890. Tax at 40% on this was £3,156, or £263 per month out my pay packet.

Compare this to my current car - a MG5 EV Trophy Long Range, list price £33,985, BIK of 2% = car cash equivalent of £679.70. Tax at 40% on this is £271.88, or £22.66 per month out my pay packet.

So yeah, over 90% less in Tax, or a personal saving of £240 per month. Then on top of that, electric miles are significantly cheaper than petrol miles... charging 0-100 costs me about £4 on a home EV tariff, which over 250 miles works out to 1.6p per mile. I found my ICE to be nearly 10x this.

But I don't think anyone considers this because any (usually older) person you speak to about EV's is absolutely convinced they're blowing up all over the place, you can't make it to the supermarket without charging twice, or something about infrastructure not being there (which is largely meaningless unless you're doing regular long journeys, as most people charge it overnight at home). 

If there was anything to gain from my rant, it's at least give EV's a fair hearing. Not just from a 'save the planet' standpoint (which you seem to acknowledge, although ironically), but also because the savings can be massive.

So much to tackle here, and I shouldn’t bother, but here goes.

Why do you think it ironic that I’d want a Range Rover? I want one because I fancy one, which I think I mentioned earlier, not because I need one. Very few people need them. The reason I wouldn’t have previously considered buying one on the company was purely mercenary, regarding the tax implications to myself. Absolutely nothing to do with the polar bears. I find it strange that you find that strange…..ironically.

The reason I wouldn’t consider a pure EV as my only car (although I would if we had two cars in the household) isn’t because I’m 87 and set in my ways (I’m 54 as it happens), it’s because I don’t believe the spiel from EVangelists. I speak to people who own them, and I make decisions for myself. 

250 mile range is enough most days, but not always. For instance, we go to Cornwall often, for short breaks, 200 miles each way plus maybe another 200 whilst there. I know I could factor in two charges at services, have a coffee etc, but I don’t need to do that with my diesel. Also the diesel takes 5 minutes to fill up. A great many people think EV’s are the future, and maybe they are, but I’m not convinced yet. I’ll agree when the range is 750 miles for a 50 grand car, like diesels. When we fly from Gatwick or Manchester, 250 miles would get us there, but not back, and the thought of having to find an available charger and wait for forty minutes, after a 10 hour flight, doesn’t fill me with joy.

I have an acquaintance through work, a retired gentleman of about 65, and he leases a Merc EV, which he said is very cheap to lease. But he’s a bird watcher, and apparently East Anglia is a great place to do this. He needs to schedule a charging stop both ways, which isn’t a problem as he’s in no rush, but he couldn’t find a hotel with chargers, close to where he needed to be. So he now has to rent an air bnb at a higher cost than a hotel, which has an EV charger. He also said that the 240 mile range dropped to about 185 in the depths of winter. He wasn’t particularly for or against the car, but he was honest about the drawbacks, which is refreshing. They just don’t interest me enough to put up with the inherent hassles.

norsefox

Jaco70 said:

Exodi said:

Jaco70 said:

I would never have given any thought to buying a ‘gas guzzler’ on the company, but I’ve heard that the BIK on hybrids is way lower, although I don’t really know any thing more concrete than that.

I find this a really strange comment as you simultaneously acknowledge the car as a 'gas guzzler' yet unironically intent on purchasing one?

Jaco70 said:
my sister has a company Mercedes EV, and she said the costs of ownership are negligible.

However, I just fancied a Range Rover, rather than actually needing one, and I’m not quite ready to take the leap to pure electric when we only have one car in the household. 

I drive an EV and this just sounds like the typical objections I see whipped up on the spot by (usually older) people who are ultimately afraid of change. It reminds me of the excuses contrived by manual car drivers adamant that they prefer manual (despite typically never haven driven an automatic - until which time they do and swiftly change their mind).

You mentioned at the start that you have "a small company-owned van, and we have a personally owned car for my wife". Are you intending to sell both then or are you suggesting that you need two ICE cars as back ups?

FWIW's we drive my EV on business contract hire as our main family car, its range is ~250 miles. The typical objection to this is 'b-b-but what if I want to drive 450 miles?' to which I ask when was the last time they did a 450 mile journey, where the response is usually along the lines of 'I can't remember, but the point is, I could if I wanted!'. Then false compromise is made by vague comments like 'I'd drive an EV if the range was 500 or 1000 miles' .

My previous car was a hybrid - a Toyota Corolla Touring Spots Icon Tech, for the same car, list price £31,560, BIK of 25% = car cash equivalent of £7,890. Tax at 40% on this was £3,156, or £263 per month out my pay packet.

Compare this to my current car - a MG5 EV Trophy Long Range, list price £33,985, BIK of 2% = car cash equivalent of £679.70. Tax at 40% on this is £271.88, or £22.66 per month out my pay packet.

So yeah, over 90% less in Tax, or a personal saving of £240 per month. Then on top of that, electric miles are significantly cheaper than petrol miles... charging 0-100 costs me about £4 on a home EV tariff, which over 250 miles works out to 1.6p per mile. I found my ICE to be nearly 10x this.

But I don't think anyone considers this because any (usually older) person you speak to about EV's is absolutely convinced they're blowing up all over the place, you can't make it to the supermarket without charging twice, or something about infrastructure not being there (which is largely meaningless unless you're doing regular long journeys, as most people charge it overnight at home). 

If there was anything to gain from my rant, it's at least give EV's a fair hearing. Not just from a 'save the planet' standpoint (which you seem to acknowledge, although ironically), but also because the savings can be massive.

So much to tackle here, and I shouldn’t bother, but here goes.

Why do you think it ironic that I’d want a Range Rover? I want one because I fancy one, which I think I mentioned earlier, not because I need one. Very few people need them. The reason I wouldn’t have previously considered buying one on the company was purely mercenary, regarding the tax implications to myself. Absolutely nothing to do with the polar bears. I find it strange that you find that strange…..ironically.

The reason I wouldn’t consider a pure EV as my only car (although I would if we had two cars in the household) isn’t because I’m 87 and set in my ways (I’m 54 as it happens), it’s because I don’t believe the spiel from EVangelists. I speak to people who own them, and I make decisions for myself. 

250 mile range is enough most days, but not always. For instance, we go to Cornwall often, for short breaks, 200 miles each way plus maybe another 200 whilst there. I know I could factor in two charges at services, have a coffee etc, but I don’t need to do that with my diesel. Also the diesel takes 5 minutes to fill up. A great many people think EV’s are the future, and maybe they are, but I’m not convinced yet. I’ll agree when the range is 750 miles for a 50 grand car, like diesels. When we fly from Gatwick or Manchester, 250 miles would get us there, but not back, and the thought of having to find an available charger and wait for forty minutes, after a 10 hour flight, doesn’t fill me with joy.

I have an acquaintance through work, a retired gentleman of about 65, and he leases a Merc EV, which he said is very cheap to lease. But he’s a bird watcher, and apparently East Anglia is a great place to do this. He needs to schedule a charging stop both ways, which isn’t a problem as he’s in no rush, but he couldn’t find a hotel with chargers, close to where he needed to be. So he now has to rent an air bnb at a higher cost than a hotel, which has an EV charger. He also said that the 240 mile range dropped to about 185 in the depths of winter. He wasn’t particularly for or against the car, but he was honest about the drawbacks, which is refreshing. They just don’t interest me enough to put up with the inherent hassles.

Ultimately, it's a question if your imagined inconvenience is worth a value of a few hundred pounds a month.

I'm a football referee in the professional leagues, and drive two EVs.  Given we drive up to 30,000 miles per year across two EVs, I can say quite confidently that the concerns over range affect almost a negligible number of people.

Long range version of EVs are now easily over 400 miles, with winter real world easily over 300.  It takes almost no planning to get this.

ICE cars have inherent hassles that we just accept as a matter of ownership which if the shoe was on the other foot, we'd overstate too.  Who on earth wants to drive away from the house to fuel up?  Who wants to pay for oil changes and filters when I can just get a car that basically needs no servicing.  Who wants to pay up to 20p per mile in fuel, when I can charge at home for 2.5p per mile?

I'm no evangelical, but it's not even remotely a question when convenience is concerned.  If you can get an EV through a business at the gross market rate (which both mine are) the cost saving is - quite frankly - astounding.

penners324

norsefox said:

Jaco70 said:

Exodi said:

Jaco70 said:

I would never have given any thought to buying a ‘gas guzzler’ on the company, but I’ve heard that the BIK on hybrids is way lower, although I don’t really know any thing more concrete than that.

I find this a really strange comment as you simultaneously acknowledge the car as a 'gas guzzler' yet unironically intent on purchasing one?

Jaco70 said:
my sister has a company Mercedes EV, and she said the costs of ownership are negligible.

However, I just fancied a Range Rover, rather than actually needing one, and I’m not quite ready to take the leap to pure electric when we only have one car in the household. 

I drive an EV and this just sounds like the typical objections I see whipped up on the spot by (usually older) people who are ultimately afraid of change. It reminds me of the excuses contrived by manual car drivers adamant that they prefer manual (despite typically never haven driven an automatic - until which time they do and swiftly change their mind).

You mentioned at the start that you have "a small company-owned van, and we have a personally owned car for my wife". Are you intending to sell both then or are you suggesting that you need two ICE cars as back ups?

FWIW's we drive my EV on business contract hire as our main family car, its range is ~250 miles. The typical objection to this is 'b-b-but what if I want to drive 450 miles?' to which I ask when was the last time they did a 450 mile journey, where the response is usually along the lines of 'I can't remember, but the point is, I could if I wanted!'. Then false compromise is made by vague comments like 'I'd drive an EV if the range was 500 or 1000 miles' .

My previous car was a hybrid - a Toyota Corolla Touring Spots Icon Tech, for the same car, list price £31,560, BIK of 25% = car cash equivalent of £7,890. Tax at 40% on this was £3,156, or £263 per month out my pay packet.

Compare this to my current car - a MG5 EV Trophy Long Range, list price £33,985, BIK of 2% = car cash equivalent of £679.70. Tax at 40% on this is £271.88, or £22.66 per month out my pay packet.

So yeah, over 90% less in Tax, or a personal saving of £240 per month. Then on top of that, electric miles are significantly cheaper than petrol miles... charging 0-100 costs me about £4 on a home EV tariff, which over 250 miles works out to 1.6p per mile. I found my ICE to be nearly 10x this.

But I don't think anyone considers this because any (usually older) person you speak to about EV's is absolutely convinced they're blowing up all over the place, you can't make it to the supermarket without charging twice, or something about infrastructure not being there (which is largely meaningless unless you're doing regular long journeys, as most people charge it overnight at home). 

If there was anything to gain from my rant, it's at least give EV's a fair hearing. Not just from a 'save the planet' standpoint (which you seem to acknowledge, although ironically), but also because the savings can be massive.

So much to tackle here, and I shouldn’t bother, but here goes.

Why do you think it ironic that I’d want a Range Rover? I want one because I fancy one, which I think I mentioned earlier, not because I need one. Very few people need them. The reason I wouldn’t have previously considered buying one on the company was purely mercenary, regarding the tax implications to myself. Absolutely nothing to do with the polar bears. I find it strange that you find that strange…..ironically.

The reason I wouldn’t consider a pure EV as my only car (although I would if we had two cars in the household) isn’t because I’m 87 and set in my ways (I’m 54 as it happens), it’s because I don’t believe the spiel from EVangelists. I speak to people who own them, and I make decisions for myself. 

250 mile range is enough most days, but not always. For instance, we go to Cornwall often, for short breaks, 200 miles each way plus maybe another 200 whilst there. I know I could factor in two charges at services, have a coffee etc, but I don’t need to do that with my diesel. Also the diesel takes 5 minutes to fill up. A great many people think EV’s are the future, and maybe they are, but I’m not convinced yet. I’ll agree when the range is 750 miles for a 50 grand car, like diesels. When we fly from Gatwick or Manchester, 250 miles would get us there, but not back, and the thought of having to find an available charger and wait for forty minutes, after a 10 hour flight, doesn’t fill me with joy.

I have an acquaintance through work, a retired gentleman of about 65, and he leases a Merc EV, which he said is very cheap to lease. But he’s a bird watcher, and apparently East Anglia is a great place to do this. He needs to schedule a charging stop both ways, which isn’t a problem as he’s in no rush, but he couldn’t find a hotel with chargers, close to where he needed to be. So he now has to rent an air bnb at a higher cost than a hotel, which has an EV charger. He also said that the 240 mile range dropped to about 185 in the depths of winter. He wasn’t particularly for or against the car, but he was honest about the drawbacks, which is refreshing. They just don’t interest me enough to put up with the inherent hassles.

Ultimately, it's a question if your imagined inconvenience is worth a value of a few hundred pounds a month.

I'm a football referee in the professional leagues, and drive two EVs.  Given we drive up to 30,000 miles per year across two EVs, I can say quite confidently that the concerns over range affect almost a negligible number of people.

Long range version of EVs are now easily over 400 miles, with winter real world easily over 300.  It takes almost no planning to get this.

ICE cars have inherent hassles that we just accept as a matter of ownership which if the shoe was on the other foot, we'd overstate too.  Who on earth wants to drive away from the house to fuel up?  Who wants to pay for oil changes and filters when I can just get a car that basically needs no servicing.  Who wants to pay up to 20p per mile in fuel, when I can charge at home for 2.5p per mile?

I'm no evangelical, but it's not even remotely a question when convenience is concerned.  If you can get an EV through a business at the gross market rate (which both mine are) the cost saving is - quite frankly - astounding.

& if you use Octopus for the EV car scheme they'll install the charger at home for free

Bookworm105

Jaco70 said:

mlz1413 said:

Can you take the money as a dividend and buy the car as a personal vehicle,  so no BIK ?
Tax on dividend is only once rather than yearly.

Thanks mlz1413. Yes I could do this, but taking extra dividends always comes with a big personal tax bill, which is why I was considering purchasing through the business.

odd response
BIK is a personal tax bill that recurs every year you have the car

so how many years of BIK before you equate to the one off dividend tax bill?