Planning Permission Nightmare?

Dreamer2108

Hi all. I'm in the process of purchasing a bungalow which will be mortgaged. It was built in the late 50s/early 60s and has had some work done over it's lifetime. In the 90s it had a kitchen extension, in 2015 it had a living room extension and at some point, the loft space has been boarded out to make a 'loft room' with a 'proper' staircase built upto it. It does not have a dormer. It has also had a new sandstone patio fitted in the garden which buts up to the walls. It was fitted on top of the old patio, reducing the damp proof course to one brick (I.e., too low).

When viewing the property, I had no concerns around any of the building work. I'm not a builder, but there weren't any alarm bells ringing and it all looked of good quality.

I've had a level 2 survey done and it's come to light that none of the extensions/building work has had any planning permission / building control applications lodged. It would seem they've done everything without planning permission. The surveyor therefore couldn't comment on the quality of the build. It also notified me of the patio situation.

This is my first purchase so I'm really not sure what to do next. Do I run for the hills? Property is incredibly difficult to come across in my village so I had set my heart on this one.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated or any experiences you could share.

Thank you 😊 

Dreamer2108

Should also add - the walls were tested for damp and all came back clear

silvercar

Planning permission and building regs consent are totally different.

The lack of planning permission is irrelevant now as too much time has passed for anyone to take enforcement action. In fact some or all of the work may now come within permitted development without needing formal PP.

As for building regs, ideally you want to know it met the requirements at the time. If it didn't you need to take a view on how important that is. Again too much time has passed for enforcement action - you just want the work to be safe. It seems weak to me that the lack of regulation certificates prevents the surveyor from commenting on the quality of the work, or did they say they can't see the beams etc because of decoration and therefore without certificates they don't know?

If you are worried about damp course breaching on the patio, one solution is to have a french drain dug out near the house. Cheaper then digging out the patio and provides the necessary drainage. 

Dreamer2108

silvercar said:

Planning permission and building regs consent are totally different.

The lack of planning permission is irrelevant now as too much time has passed for anyone to take enforcement action. In fact some or all of the work may now come within permitted development without needing formal PP.

As for building regs, ideally you want to know it met the requirements at the time. If it didn't you need to take a view on how important that is. Again too much time has passed for enforcement action - you just want the work to be safe. It seems weak to me that the lack of regulation certificates prevents the surveyor from commenting on the quality of the work, or did they say they can't see the beams etc because of decoration and therefore without certificates they don't know?

If you are worried about damp course breaching on the patio, one solution is to have a french drain dug out near the house. Cheaper then digging out the patio and provides the necessary drainage. 

Thank you - that's a really helpful response. The report did say exactly that, due to decoration inside she was unable to comment and outside, the extension had been rendered so again, unable to comment on the brickwork etc.,

The report made it sound very daunting and as though it may fall down around me the second I moved it.

I had no concerns on viewing it.

Green_hopeful

The seller could get retrospective building regulations consent. We got it on a house we were selling because we didn’t get final sign off when the house was built. We must have been distracted and finishing the build got snarled up with unrelated problems. We contacted building regulations and they came out and inspected the house. In our case they had been involved previously with the build so I guess they had an idea of what happened before. Also you might ask if the seller has any documentation from the extensions to see whether they had proper plans and a sensible builder. 

Dreamer2108

Green_hopeful said:

The seller could get retrospective building regulations consent. We got it on a house we were selling because we didn’t get final sign off when the house was built. We must have been distracted and finishing the build got snarled up with unrelated problems. We contacted building regulations and they came out and inspected the house. In our case they had been involved previously with the build so I guess they had an idea of what happened before. Also you might ask if the seller has any documentation from the extensions to see whether they had proper plans and a sensible builder. 

That's really useful to know! Thank you. I think I will definitely look at doing that then. Hopefully my conveyancer can help sort that. Still awaiting a response from them.

Was feeling very nervous this morning but it doesn't sound quite as bad as the report makes it sound. Thank you so much!

Slinky

Green_hopeful said:

The seller could get retrospective building regulations consent. We got it on a house we were selling because we didn’t get final sign off when the house was built. We must have been distracted and finishing the build got snarled up with unrelated problems. We contacted building regulations and they came out and inspected the house. In our case they had been involved previously with the build so I guess they had an idea of what happened before. Also you might ask if the seller has any documentation from the extensions to see whether they had proper plans and a sensible builder. 

@Dreamer2108 This is a completely different situation to the one the OP finds themselves in. Yours was known to building control due to their oversight along the way, and presumably was within a reasonable timeline from when your job was completed to when you wanted to sell.

The OP is looking at work done 30ish years ago and 9 years ago.  Building regs will have changed massively in that time. The seller is not going to get BC signoff without a massive amount of intrusive inspection work they are unlikely to agree to.

Bigphil1474

OP, as above, BC are unlikely to sign off the work unless they can see if the construction work was done properly. They aren't looking at the decorative features. The loft space might be doable if it has simply been boarded out and a staircase fitted. They will look at structural safety for its purpose. It might need a lot of work to get it usable as a bedroom, but it might be fine as a general storage area. As others have said, some of it might be permitted development - anything up to 3 metres out could be PD, but I think you are only allowed one such build. I was also under the impression that planning had 12 years to deal with issues, could be wrong. If it is 12 years, then the last extension is within that time. 

If it was me, I'd walk away unless I could find some evidence that the building works were done to a decent standard, and even then it's a big risk, especially when you come to sell at some point. Is there more than one builder in the village?

ThisIsWeird

Dreamer2108 said:

Hi all. I'm in the process of purchasing a bungalow which will be mortgaged. It was built in the late 50s/early 60s and has had some work done over it's lifetime. In the 90s it had a kitchen extension, in 2015 it had a living room extension and at some point, the loft space has been boarded out to make a 'loft room' with a 'proper' staircase built upto it. It does not have a dormer. It has also had a new sandstone patio fitted in the garden which buts up to the walls. It was fitted on top of the old patio, reducing the damp proof course to one brick (I.e., too low).

The '90s kitchen extension is still standing? Cool - I'd have zero concerns about that

The 2015 extension ain't that long ago, but - again - if there are no signs of movement, then I'd personally have few concerns about it, and it wouldn't put me off the property if all else was what I wanted. With some caveats, tho'. 

I'm guessing that an opening has been made in a wall for this extension, presumably an exterior wall? I would like to know that the support for this has been done correctly, and suitable lintels used. Possibly they just opened up existing windows, so the original lintels are still in place? Was this work done during the current owner's tenure? If so, they must know. So I'd be asking Qs such as 'who did the work?' 'Any photos taken at the time?' etc. If that builder is still around, and even if not, try and get an idea of their calibre and repute.

Pretty much forget Retrospective Building Control Certification - this would likely require a large amount of explorative damage and disruption to expose all the 'structural' parts, insulation levels in walls, underfloor ventilation, even wiring and stuff, and almost certainly the vendor isn't going to agree to this, and certainly not pay for it. Instead, I'd be asking for an Indemnity Policy to the value of the house, or near-as, to cover the worst case scenario - that the extension is ever deemed unsafe and needs to be rebuilt! And, if you go 'indemnity policy', you shouldn't tell the LA about your concerns, just in case they send their BCO out for a gander...

As long as your house remains as it is, the LA won't chase you on it. The only exception is if they somehow deem it unsafe, but that is infinitesimally unlikely.

The 'converted' loft isn't - it's just a loft, albeit boarded. You use it as you wish - bearing in mind risks from fires etc should you use it as 'habitable' space - but just refer to it as it is - a 'loft'. And it shouldn't really affect the value of the property upwards.

Dreamer2108

Bigphil1474 said:

OP, as above, BC are unlikely to sign off the work unless they can see if the construction work was done properly. They aren't looking at the decorative features. The loft space might be doable if it has simply been boarded out and a staircase fitted. They will look at structural safety for its purpose. It might need a lot of work to get it usable as a bedroom, but it might be fine as a general storage area. As others have said, some of it might be permitted development - anything up to 3 metres out could be PD, but I think you are only allowed one such build. I was also under the impression that planning had 12 years to deal with issues, could be wrong. If it is 12 years, then the last extension is within that time. 

If it was me, I'd walk away unless I could find some evidence that the building works were done to a decent standard, and even then it's a big risk, especially when you come to sell at some point. Is there more than one builder in the village?

Thank you for the advice, I really appreciate it. There are a few neighbouring villages and a large town not too far so pinning down the actual builder is proving tricky.

The existing owner has reported that the work was done before he purchased the property and only had an indemnity policy with no further details of who completed the work or how.

Some careful consideration to be made!

Dreamer2108

ThisIsWeird said:

Dreamer2108 said:

Hi all. I'm in the process of purchasing a bungalow which will be mortgaged. It was built in the late 50s/early 60s and has had some work done over it's lifetime. In the 90s it had a kitchen extension, in 2015 it had a living room extension and at some point, the loft space has been boarded out to make a 'loft room' with a 'proper' staircase built upto it. It does not have a dormer. It has also had a new sandstone patio fitted in the garden which buts up to the walls. It was fitted on top of the old patio, reducing the damp proof course to one brick (I.e., too low).

The '90s kitchen extension is still standing? Cool - I'd have zero concerns about that

The 2015 extension ain't that long ago, but - again - if there are no signs of movement, then I'd personally have few concerns about it, and it wouldn't put me off the property if all else was what I wanted. With some caveats, tho'. 

I'm guessing that an opening has been made in a wall for this extension, presumably an exterior wall? I would like to know that the support for this has been done correctly, and suitable lintels used. Possibly they just opened up existing windows, so the original lintels are still in place? Was this work done during the current owner's tenure? If so, they must know. So I'd be asking Qs such as 'who did the work?' 'Any photos taken at the time?' etc. If that builder is still around, and even if not, try and get an idea of their calibre and repute.

Pretty much forget Retrospective Building Control Certification - this would likely require a large amount of explorative damage and disruption to expose all the 'structural' parts, insulation levels in walls, underfloor ventilation, even wiring and stuff, and almost certainly the vendor isn't going to agree to this, and certainly not pay for it. Instead, I'd be asking for an Indemnity Policy to the value of the house, or near-as, to cover the worst case scenario - that the extension is ever deemed unsafe and needs to be rebuilt! And, if you go 'indemnity policy', you shouldn't tell the LA about your concerns, just in case they send their BCO out for a gander...

As long as your house remains as it is, the LA won't chase you on it. The only exception is if they somehow deem it unsafe, but that is infinitesimally unlikely.

The 'converted' loft isn't - it's just a loft, albeit boarded. You use it as you wish - bearing in mind risks from fires etc should you use it as 'habitable' space - but just refer to it as it is - a 'loft'. And it shouldn't really affect the value of the property upwards.

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I really appreciate it.

There's points in your response that I hadn't considered so will look into those. 

Unfortunately the existing owner doesn't know much about the work so the indemnity may be the only way forward besides avoiding the property.

Thank you again