What to do next when OFFGEM don’t help?

Leezy2

So I’ll cut a very long story short. March 2019 we were subject to an erroneous transfer from EOn to Scottish Power. SP accepted this, transferred the gas supply back but not the electricity. Fast forward 5 years, the Ombudsman has told them what to do but they’ve not done it. I went back to the Ombudsman and they asked SP for evidence they had carried out the remedies. SP replied but the documents they sent were incorrect, however as they replied the Ombudsman said ‘here you go’ and if we had any questions to go back to SP. SP are not replying to any emails and neither is the Ombudsman. Debt collectors are now hassling us for a bill we’ve never received, and also texting a neighbour down the road chasing them as well as SP passed on their details from the original erroneous transfer.
Who can we contact with a chance of actually sorting this out?

MattMattMattUK

Leezy2 said:

So I’ll cut a very long story short. March 2019 we were subject to an erroneous transfer from EOn to Scottish Power. SP accepted this, transferred the gas supply back but not the electricity. Fast forward 5 years, the Ombudsman has told them what to do but they’ve not done it. I went back to the Ombudsman and they asked SP for evidence they had carried out the remedies. SP replied but the documents they sent were incorrect, however as they replied the Ombudsman said ‘here you go’ and if we had any questions to go back to SP. SP are not replying to any emails and neither is the Ombudsman. Debt collectors are now hassling us for a bill we’ve never received, and also texting a neighbour down the road chasing them as well as SP passed on their details from the original erroneous transfer.
Who can we contact with a chance of actually sorting this out?

Can you explain what the actual issue is? From the little you have said it would seem there is a bill that you do not feel you should pay?

Leezy2

They were instructed to produce a bill for us in our name and apply back billing to it. They simply changed the name on the account they had set up for the person who made the transfer, but who had accidentally put our address on. The bill they sent the Ombudsman as ‘proof’ they had done as instructed is in someone else’s name, my address and has credits on it from the other customer so not an accurate bill. I pointed this out and they said they would look into it and get back to us ASAP. Three years later they suddenly got in touch and produced another bill for over £4000 and immediately referred it to a debt collection agency. We’ve never seen this bill and the agency are sending letters to us but phoning the other customer as SP are obviously still getting our details mixed up. I doubt the bill is accurate as I suspect it still has the DD payments on it from the other person. The bill they sent to the Ombudsman as ‘proof’ they had done as instructed is the one from three years ago and the Ombudsman just said if there was an issue to contact SP. I’ve contacted both SP and replied to the Ombudsman but neither is responding. 

MattMattMattUK

Leezy2 said:

They were instructed to produce a bill for us in our name and apply back billing to it. They simply changed the name on the account they had set up for the person who made the transfer, but who had accidentally put our address on. The bill they sent the Ombudsman as ‘proof’ they had done as instructed is in someone else’s name, my address and has credits on it from the other customer so not an accurate bill. I pointed this out and they said they would look into it and get back to us ASAP. Three years later they suddenly got in touch and produced another bill for over £4000 

When was the ombudsman's decision, three years ago or recently? Who did you point the error out to, EON, the ombudsman, both? How did you communicate, email, writing, phone?

Leezy2 said:

and immediately referred it to a debt collection agency. We’ve never seen this bill and the agency are sending letters to us but phoning the other customer as SP are obviously still getting our details mixed up.

Write back to the debt collection company, tell them that the bill is in dispute and they need to return it to SP.

Leezy2 said:

I doubt the bill is accurate as I suspect it still has the DD payments on it from the other person. The bill they sent to the Ombudsman as ‘proof’ they had done as instructed is the one from three years ago and the Ombudsman just said if there was an issue to contact SP. I’ve contacted both SP and replied to the Ombudsman but neither is responding. 

How have you contacted SP, in writing, email, phoned? I suspect the ombudsman will not if the claim is three years old and is regarded as closed.

Leezy2

Everything in writing, by email. I’ve copied the Ombudsman in on every email to Scottish Power and they did recently ask SP to provide evidence they had carried out the remedies. The information SP sent them as proof though shows just the opposite, a bill in someone else’s name! The debt collection agency says only Scottish Power can stop them chasing this non-existent bill and Scottish Power are ignoring us. I’ve pointed out to the Ombudsman that the evidence they received supports my comment that they haven’t done as instructed but the Ombudsman isn’t responding now either. 

Ildhund

You've left out quite a few salient points:

• Do you have a smart meter, or have you been submitting regular (monthly) meter readings? 
  If you've been submitting readings, who to?  
  
• How much electricity have you used in those 5½ years? 
  You presumably have a meter reading from March 2019. Subtract it from the current reading to find exactly how many kWh you've used. 
• What bills have you received for electricity over the past 5½ years? 
  Who from? 
  Were they based on the readings you submitted, or estimates?
• How much have you paid for electricity over the past 5½ years?
  Who to, and how: by Direct Debit or otherwise?
  
  

Someone has been supplying you with electricity all this time, presumably SP. Even though you didn't ask to become their customer, you did (and you knew it), and that renders you liable to pay them for what they've supplied. You might get away with some of it, depending on what you actually received in the way of bills, but there's no doubt you probably owe them a lot of money unless you've been paying them.

Anyone can make a mistake when giving or taking details of a switch, which is why the 'erroneous transfer' mechanism exists. The fact that it hasn't worked in your case doesn't mean you can expect not to have to pay for what you've used.

born_again

Why did you not just switch electric back to who you wanted when the erroneous transfer was made & they did not action it?

Have you paid any electric bills in the last 5 years?

Scot_39

Do you pay by DD - or rather have SP being expecting you to ?

You hint the new bill might have someone else's DD credit amounts - so inrwality you would owe even mord than balance why ??

You clearly accept you have a supply.


What was your last reading prior to switch error.  What is it now ?.  Have you paid for any of it ?

You might not like being stuck at SP but unless you were on a fix and lost it - chances are on SVT you would have been billed at same Ofgem / EPG cap rates.

There is potentially no loss as such.  And as such Ombudsman might have simply asked SP to produce a settlement figure bill to allow you to pay for your use and then switch away.


Many firms have gone non postal for existing and some by default all new clients.
I know people with SP who have to log in to see any bills /  statements - paper stopped years ago (near decade in my parents case).
Have you ever created an account with SP and checked for any online bills / statements ?
Given the mismatches - would you even have been able to ?

(As I know they can be with SP - as have in past had to download statements - paid SP by DD - no paper, no email, just available in account for download. Still their bill, liability though.  Sibling still has to on their SP account).

Bills when issued are essentially for supply to a given meter at a given address.

If the meter serial number is at your address and your address the supply address rather than any billing address / name etc - it remains your liability unless tenancy says otherwise if renting e.g. rent inclusive.

Names / postal addresses normally match but don't always have to.

How much have you paid anyone for that supply at your address in last 5 years ?

I worry the answer may be zero.

You may need a far more detailed analysis of actual usage and any past and revised billing by SP potentially.

Have SP ever produced a bill for the meters at your address ?

If meters are not smart, or not operating smart - have you supplied readings.  As you are likely obligated to in T&Cs to your current suplliers (who you knew were SP).

Yes, we know you should have been switched back promptly, but you would have been aware of that from first EOn bills for gas only. 


How many bills were potentially available to you but not paid ?

As backbilling is not a simple hard cut off - it doesn't mean you cannot be re-billed for consumption beyond 12m ago - just in simplest terms that you cannot be billed for increased consumption / amounts.  It's a consumer bill shock protection against supllier error - e.g. underestimated bills from their failure to reasonably secure annual accurate readings.  

It's not a complete get out of jail free card for consumers to ignore their legal obligations as part of the supplier / consumer contract.

So if bills / statements were issued online only by SP - and that was part of supply T&Cs when switched or later - and you could have but you didn't access - those could well stand as due - and so part of legal debt demand

And remember in a swap back in any case  - you would have to pay EOn for continuous electricity service - as you likely did for gas.

So what you didn't pay SP for, you would have paid EOn.  And Ombudsman might have as above reflected that in decision too.
You may see a partial write off or some small  compensation offered or even awarded by Ombudsman (did they suggest any) given the delays - but suspect you'd be optimistic to rely on it meaning you will avoid paying beyond just last 12m..

I suggest you seek phone or face to face help, e.g. a debt charity or citizens advice, re not only bills, but more importantly the real and imminent threat of debt proceedings / court action.

And Ofgem are not involved at an individual level - your recourse is via Ombudsman - and you need to be very careful about submitting a clear and factual complaint when you do. As it is sometimes described here as a one shot process only revisited with new facts (not old ones yhat should have been included, submitted later, unless maybe if requested clarifications).  I have had complaints via SP - dealt with in 4-5 weeks from initial CS contact to resolution fairly efficiently in distant past and SG - that took 3-4 months in end -  but never had to take as Ombudsman so not sure. And you have a decision on balance of past submissions.

Leezy2

OK, no suggestion that we don’t need to pay for the electricity, we’ve been putting the money aside. The ombudsman told them they had to apply back billing because they had not accurately billed us for more than 12 months, even though we provided meter readings both directly and via the ombudsman. We still haven’t got an accurate bill despite all our efforts, and I never seem to get a reply from the same person twice at SP. It’s impossible to explain all the various combinations of bills they’ve produced over the five years, they’ve made a monumental mess of it. 
The only reason we know how things are progressing with the debt collectors is because the person they keep texting is telling us. They’ve told the agent their details are wrong, we’ve told them the details are wrong, and that we haven’t had a bill. SP have been given our contact details dozens of times, again directly and via the ombudsman, they say we need to speak to Scottish Power but we can’t get them to communicate. Request a ring back? Yes and give them the number to call us on, and they phone the other person!

How, when we get no response from Scottish Power or the Ombudsman do we sort this out?

Phones4Chris

I thought - someone with the correct legal knowledge please advise - that once you told the debt collector that the bills are in dispute and the reasons why, they had no option but to pass it back and are legally not allowed to pursue you or the other party. If I'm right, both of you need to tell the debt collector and threaten them with legal action if they continue and don't pass it back.
You might also find it useful for both parties to consult Citizens advice.

Qyburn

I don't know if that's strictly true, it may be in a code of practice somewhere. But a debt collectors has no power in any case.