ParkingEye Help needed on next steps

gameinn

Hello everyone

Granted I probably went in too deep before actually reading the newbie post fully but I'll try and outline everything so far. Last year I got a pcn thrown out from Horizon with something similar to the blue template posted in the newbie thread (it's just abit more... aggressive).

This is the template that worked:

"I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to give notice of keeper liability as prescribed by section 9 (2) (f) of the Act.

You have also failed to give the required invitation to keeper in the form prescribed by section 9 (2) (e) of the Act.  You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.  There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.

Your Parking Charge Notice and Notice to Keeper are non-POFA and, as a result, the keeper cannot be held liable.

I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that this charge will be cancelled accordingly, that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records."

Now the actual problem: My brother last week got a pcn from ParkingEye and it seemed similar in nature. Here is a photo of the pcn with sensitive info taken out: https://i.imgur.com/TfRZsZO.png

Me in my over confidence just said "I'll take care of it" and did the appeal. On the parkingeye website you had to say who is appealing so I stated the keeper and everything else defaulted to "Other". I did not state who was driving. The pcn was issued in Scotland.

I then copy pasted that template and it appears to have been unsuccessful. This email and pdf came back. Screenshotted and redacted info. It's over a couple screenshots sorry:

1st: https://i.imgur.com/XO1EViP.png
2nd: https://i.imgur.com/BfeKKYF.png
3rd: https://i.imgur.com/f0GkDDf.png
4th: https://i.imgur.com/km0Qg4f.png
5th: https://i.imgur.com/jIVmPD8.png

I don't know how I'm supposed to proceed now especially given those limited scenarios in the 5th screenshot. My only idea after now reading the newbies thread is to hope my brother got the "golden ticket" so I have asked him to send a photo of the back of the pcn. If it does have that info about POFA 2012 then what now?

Thanks for any info

Nellymoser

The pcn was issued in Scotland, does your brother live in Scotland? Not sure if he resides in England/Wales it makes a difference. Regulars will advise. 
There is still no keeper liability in Scotland only the driver is liable for the charge. 
Check advice in NEWBIES for pcns in Scotland.
Don't reveal who was driving, try Plan A if you want it cancelled then ignore.
Keeper liability is coming to Scotland probably be after Govt statutory CoP and new appeals service are up and running. 

gameinn

Nellymoser said:

The pcn was issued in Scotland, does your brother live in Scotland? Not sure if he resides in England/Wales it makes a difference. Regulars will advise. 
There is still no keeper liability in Scotland only the driver is liable for the charge. 
Check advice in NEWBIES for pcns in Scotland.
Don't reveal who was driving, try Plan A if you want it cancelled then ignore.
Keeper liability is coming to Scotland probably be after Govt statutory CoP and new appeals service are up and running. 

Yes he lives in Scotland.

I got him to send me the back of the letter. I think I might have the "golden ticket" but it varies slightly from the one posted in the newbies thread. Link here: https://i.imgur.com/jezFXY6.png

Unless I am mistaken I see no mention of POFA 2012. Am I right in saying this?

If so, could anybody please advise on how to proceed? Should I just try and slightly change the template posted by Batman3479 in the newbies thread when appealing to POPLA? Anything else to look out for? Their template has stuff about 53 days later which isn't really anything I can mention as it does appear to be within 14 days.

Thanks again

Gr1pr

POFA 2012 does not apply in Scotland, so if he lives in Scotland and the vehicle is registered in Scotland then there is no keeper liability, so no blabbing about who was driving 

Parking Eye had 6 months to obtain keeper details and one month to get the PCN to the keeper, not 14 days 

He should cease dealing with it if PE don't know who was driving, no further action 

It will times out after 5 years 

The correct advice that you should have given him is

Ignore the PCN and file it away, no further action 

Only the driver can appeal to Popla in Scotland, so not a good idea  ( it does tell you this on the back of the PCN. )

gameinn

Since I've already started stuff, should I not finish it? As Nellymoser said if keeper liability is coming to Scotland then that puts a spanner in the works no?

Shouldn't I appeal under the grounds of it's in Scotland and it's not valid anyway?

Gr1pr

The PCN is valid, possibly correctly issued too, especially with a known driver 

Valid or Invalid is not the test, Enforceable or Unenforceable are

You can't appeal it, only the driver can appeal it to popla, which means revealing who was driving, a definite no no 

It is unlikely that any changes in the laws in Scotland over the next few years would be retrospective, meaning that this case would never have keeper liability, so the recipient should sit on their hands and do nothing, as should you 

Your time would be better spent understanding that the advice for PCNs issued to people in Scotland is not the same as in England and Wales 

Its well meaning but naive people who cause chaos for victims, so step back and neither of you do anything at all !

Just stop

gameinn

Why does the newbies thread state that you should appeal in the first place then? Shouldn't it literally just say

"Q - ''I'm in Scotland, so is the advice different?''

YES. IF THE EVENT TOOK PLACE IN SCOTLAND, WE SUGGEST YOU DO NOTHING, NOT EVEN APPEAL".

Appealing (even if not naming the driver as has been done here) surely just gives them additional ammunition that the pcn was actually received and not lost?

Gr1pr

PCNs can definitely be enforced against drivers in Scotland, google the Carly Mackie court case, that sent Carly into being bankrupt. I have no idea why you believe that a PCN cannot be enforced in Scotland ( they can also be enforced in England and Wales too, not as easy in Northern Ireland so ignore is the advice there. )

So its different depending on the actual nation, but there is always a possibility of legal enforcement against known drivers, (.  especially if they were to obtain multiple PCNs. )

In this case, your relative should have ignored the PCN, so as the appeal was done and rejected, as keeper, its back to ignore, no further action 

The fact that the PCN was received correctly is irrelevant, its presumed to be delivered 2 business days after posting 

Coupon-mad

Why does the newbies thread state that you should appeal in the first place then? 

Because the law is changing next year when Scotland gets keeper liability. I didn't want people reading it and thinking they can always ignore private PCNs in Scotland.

And because first appeal does no harm!

And because complaining to the landowner is ALWAYS worth doing first.

May as well try to get the annoying charge cancelled rather than put up with the threatograms.

Your brother simply ignores it NOW.

Nothing will happen because this pre-dates the keeper liability law change and ParkingEye don't litigate in Scotland. Ever.  If you want to learn more about the law change search the forum for a combo of keywords from:

Scotland parking law change 2025 transport act keeper liability

gameinn

Thanks both of you. I will instruct him.

Castle

Gr1pr said:

PCNs can definitely be enforced against drivers in Scotland, google the Carly Mackie court case, that sent Carly into being bankrupt. I have no idea why you believe that a PCN cannot be enforced in Scotland ( they can also be enforced in England and Wales too, not as easy in Northern Ireland so ignore is the advice there. )

So its different depending on the actual nation, but there is always a possibility of legal enforcement against known drivers, (.  especially if they were to obtain multiple PCNs. )

In this case, your relative should have ignored the PCN, so as the appeal was done and rejected, as keeper, its back to ignore, no further action 

The fact that the PCN was received correctly is irrelevant, its presumed to be delivered 2 business days after posting 

Technically that presumption only applies to NTK's which comply with POFA.