Replace radiator valve with BG home care?

silvercar

TeeAy said:

Billxx said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Very possible that a simple head replacement will fix them, TeeYa - very DIYable if so.
If you post a photo of one, we can guide you.
New heads will be around £15 each.

Absolutely agree.  I changed a couple of the heads recently in my son's flat.  Screwfix £16 each.  If you take on BG home care, they will survey your home before they agree the contract.  I doubt they will fix existing faults.  Also depending on the level of cover you have there is an excess (mine is £60).

when I called BG they asked a few questions and then gave me a quote.  They didn't mention a survey, not sure if it's because one of their engineers had visited already? 

 Interestingly the emailed service feedback form afterwards doesn't mention any issues and seems to give the rads the all clear.  or am I reading into this what I *wish* for?  lol

Probably because they have visited recently, coupled with not having cover for faults in the first 2 weeks of the contract. So they feel that people with a boiler fail won't wait 2 weeks without any heating or hot water. 

ThisIsWeird

TeeAy said:

When I called BG they asked a few questions and then gave me a quote.  They didn't mention a survey, not sure if it's because one of their engineers had visited already?
 Interestingly the emailed service feedback form afterwards doesn't mention any issues and seems to give the rads the all clear.  or am I reading into this what I *wish* for?  lol

I can only guess what's going on! First, I'm guessing that the email with the green tick for your rads is as a result of their engineer's visit - your engineer marked them as functioning, even tho' he knew there was an issue with the valves. And, the guy couldn't know they all worked if he didn't manage to open the TRVs.

I'm further going to guess that your engineer is doing this as a favour to you, in a somewhat misguided attempt at helping you out. Why 'misguided'? Because it's unethical at best, and potentially 'fraud' or similar at worst - regardless of what we all think of BG. And - think on this - that engineer is being 'dishonest', whichever way you put it. You'd be using a provably dishonest engineer.

Another possibility is that he is setting this up for himself - he'll be given 'you' as one of his customers, reckons it'll be a cushy job (I dunno - no screaming kids? Available at any time? Nice cuppa and biccies? Off-street parking?!), and will prefer it over many others (6 flights up stairs, treading in used nappies, wing mirror ripped off his van...). And, he might get some commission for each new sign-up? (Don't know).

Personally, I would caution against this as it's simply 'wrong'. I especially didn't like the "You can cancel afterwards..." bit; I fear a disgruntled BG engineer. And you will be the one who'll need to call up and say, "Yup - honest - all of my rads have stopped working...Yup, on the same day..."

TeeAy

ThisIsWeird said:

TeeAy said:

When I called BG they asked a few questions and then gave me a quote.  They didn't mention a survey, not sure if it's because one of their engineers had visited already?
 Interestingly the emailed service feedback form afterwards doesn't mention any issues and seems to give the rads the all clear.  or am I reading into this what I *wish* for?  lol

I can only guess what's going on! First, I'm guessing that the email with the green tick for your rads is as a result of their engineer's visit - your engineer marked them as functioning, even tho' he knew there was an issue with the valves. And, the guy couldn't know they all work if he didn't manage to open the TRVs.

I'm further going to guess that your engineer is doing this as a favour to you, in a somewhat misguided attempt at helping you out. Why 'misguided'? Because it's unethical at best, and potentially 'fraud' or similar at worst - regardless of what we all think of BG. And - think on this - that engineer being 'dishonest', whichever way you put it.

Another possibility is that he is setting this up for himself - he'll be given 'you' as one of his customers, reckons it'll be a cushy job (I dunno - no screaming kids? Available at any time? Nice cuppa and biccies? Off-street parking?!), and will prefer it over many others (6 flights up stairs, treading in used nappies, wing mirror ripped off his van...).

Personally, I would caution against this. I especially didn't like the "You can cancel afterwards..." bit; I fear a disgruntled BG engineer. And you will be the one to call up and say, "Yup - honest - all of my rads have stopped working..."

lol no I'd not cancel it after taking cover, just giving an example of what he mentioned which was very surprising!   

ThisIsWeird

TeeAy said:

Yes, these are getting on, and do tend to fail after 15 years or so.

They can fail in one of two ways - in the 'on' or the 'off' position. I guess yours are 'off'! (I think these Draytons do tend to).

Your options are;

1) Attempt a DIY fix. This involves removing the head (20 seconds), and persuading the 'pin' on the valve underneath to pop up. 90% of the time this works. If the pins come loose, you buy a set of new compatible TRVs, remove their heads, fit them on your valves, and keep the bodies until such time as your system is being drained for another reason. Cost? Around £20 each. Or, only buy new 'heads' and fit just them - cost around £12 each?

2) A Pro fix - a plumber (doesn't have to be a GasSafe) drains or depressurises your CH system, and replaces them all. Whilst he's at it, he also fits a magnetic filter near your boiler, to keep your system, clean. Cost? No idea. Prob £25 for each valve, and 2 hours work? (And ~£100 for the filter).

3) You DIY an improvement if you want, by fitting Smart heads on some of these valves, and update your whole CH controls. Cost? £45+ per Smart head, and £125+ for the Smart controls. You'd fit the Smart heads only to rads that you are always turning on and off each day - bedrooms come to mind.

Meanwhile, please do this:

a) Open a TRV head to max, ie '5'. Unscrew that chrome serrated collar, and fully remove the whole head. If your CH is running, does that valve body now start to heat up?

b) Look at the underside of the head - in the centre you'll see a black plastic round bit - stare at that as you turn the top chrome part of the head from max to min and back again. Does that plastic bit move out and in at all?

c) Look at the metal pin coming out the top of the valve body. Is it dirty? Signs of verdigris? Sediment? Take a photo, please.

d) If the metal pin is dirty, then clean it using an old toothbrush. Then get a spoon, and place your thumb in it. Use this to press the pin down firmly - does it move? If so, does it pop back up when released? Push again - does it move smoothly, and bottom-out firmly? Or, is it truly stuck?

e) If the pin is clearly stuck down ('off'), then just leave the TRV head removed. Very often they will pop up by themselves after a few hours or even days - you'll know 'cos the rads will heat up!

Albermarle

es, these are getting on, and do tend to fail after 15 years or so.

They can fail in one of two ways - in the 'on' or the 'off' position. I guess yours are 'off'! (I think these Draytons do tend to).

The OP's problem is that the radiators are full on all the time, not off.

OP - Normally the problem is that 'the pin' is stuck down ( often after the heating has not been on for a few months) and the radiator does not warm up at all.

Anyway as suggested unscrew the heads of the TRV's and have a look to see if the pin can be moved, by pressing on it with a something hard/metallic. Then report back .

Although the heads do fail, it seems odd that all seven have.

ThisIsWeird

Albermarle said:

es, these are getting on, and do tend to fail after 15 years or so.

They can fail in one of two ways - in the 'on' or the 'off' position. I guess yours are 'off'! (I think these Draytons do tend to).
The OP's problem is that the radiators are full on all the time, not off.
OP - Normally the problem is that 'the pin' is stuck down ( often after the heating has not been on for a few months) and the radiator does not warm up at all.
Anyway as suggested unscrew the heads of the TRV's and have a look to see if the pin can be moved, by pressing on it with a something hard/metallic. Then report back .
Although the heads do fail, it seems odd that all seven have.

That's a D'oh-deja-vooo all over again :-(

Most of the checks I suggested still apply (whistles...)

TeeAy

thanks @Albermarle and @ThisIsWeird yes when the heating is on, all the radiators heat up to maximum no matter whether I dial the TRVs to frost mode or maximum heat.   

I've been unable to get the head of the TRVs off but I think whats been suggested was tried by the engineer- they removed the TRV head / pulled the pin out in the middle but this didn't change anything. I've not had the heating on much since then but I've not noticed anything different when I've had it on again.  

Any idea re labour & parts costs to replace the TRVs? 

ThisIsWeird

TeeAy said:

thanks @Albermarle and @ThisIsWeird yes when the heating is on, all the radiators heat up to maximum no matter whether I dial the TRVs to frost mode or maximum heat.  
I've been unable to get the head of the TRVs off but I think whats been suggested was tried by the engineer- they removed the TRV head / pulled the pin out in the middle but this didn't change anything. I've not had the heating on much since then but I've not noticed anything different when I've had it on again. 
Any idea re labour & parts costs to replace the TRVs? 

Assume around £25 per TRV, and a half-day's work? More predictable if you have a 'sealed' 'unvented' system - ie one with a pressure gauge. Do you? 'Vented' system can take a while to both drain and refill, and can also have subsequent issues like trapped air.

So, what's a half day-to-one-day's labour? I dunno - £200-£400? If so, this is going to be costly. Didn't your plumber give you a quote, or even a ballpark figure?

Really worth considering a DIY fix - this is MSE after all... First try this:

Open that TRV to 'max' - '5'?

Now grab that yellow-arrowed chrome collar with your left hand, clutched in thumb and forefinger as if giving an 'ok' sign. Clutch the upper white 'Drayton' body firmly in t'right hand. 

See if the head can be rotated back and forth just a few mm as indicated by the green arrow, before coming to a halt each way - it should be able to. JUST A FEW mm! It rocks? Cool. Now finish by turning it  'clockwise' as you look down on it. Remember, the white body will only move a few mm each way before stopping. (The white body, not the top chrome control).

Now, as you exert a constant anti-clockwise (yellow arrow) turn on the chrome collar, rotate the upper white casing back and forth repeatedly as before. You should hopefully find that, as you turn the upper body a few mm anti-clock, the chrome collar will move with it. Hold the chrome collar firmly whilst turning the top body back clockwise - the collar should stay put, whilst the white body turns a few mm back.

Repeat a few times, and the collar should soon become loose. Unscrew, and lift off the head, and show us a photo of what's underneath, please.

Albermarle

As above, although if you have a adjustable wrench you could use that to hold the collar, and hopefully get a more leverage. 

ThisIsWeird

I checked his garage - he doesn't.