PCN on Free car park at GP surgery during appointment as a patient

Smellopee

Got a PCN from Civil enforcement ltd because I forgot to enter my reg when I parked at my GP surgery car park reserved for patients to attend an appointment. I provided proof of appointment so they reduced fine to £20 which I refused to pay cause this car park was built for patients use and CEL were supposedly brought in to ensure patients could access it and locals wouldn’t use it. Complained to the surgery with documents found on here, they’re not interested and say that as a business they don’t have to abide to NHS guideline 9having to offer free car park to regular patients, I was having weekly appointments). Appealed to POPLA they rejected it. Complained to CQC haven’t heard back. Complained to Ombudsman they said they couldn’t help as no one else complained and they could only deal with it if it was a recurrent issue. Contacted my employee assistance program for legal advice they just told me to pay. Ignored debt collectors’ letters and have now received a Letter Before Action. I have wasted so much time on this wish I had paid the £20 now. It is so wrong the surgery is handing out vulnerable people to that company to pray on but I am ready to give up the fight. Need advice on next steps to help me find the strength to carry on.

 

1 – Do I give up and offer to pay the £20 they originally wanted or will this make me liable for the full £170?

2 – Do I just use the template reply letter provided on here and hope they won’t take it to court. I don’t think I have it me to fill in all the court paperwork.

3 – Do I have any chance to fight back and recover for wasted time with a counter claim? In my first appeal letter I mentioned I’ll charge them £150 per hour for time wasted on research and replies and £250 for the upset caused which I would multiply by the number of all the letters they harassed and threatened me with. Is that enforceable like me setting out a contract in the same manner they have? They have stated they ‘rejected my offer to charge them an admin fee’.

4 - Can I make an additional claim against my GP surgery for medical negligence for breach of duty of care or is that a different court?

5 - Do you know whether the GP surgery would monetarily benefit in any way from the charges collected by CEL? If so is this even legal?

6 - Considering the info I’ve provided, is there a way I can make the template response letter to Letter Before Claim stronger with the right legal references to make sure they drop it.

7 – One of the other patients in the same situation chose to ignore all letters even the letter before claim, would it be risky for me to do the same?

 

Thanks in advance

Gr1pr

1) definitely not 

2) yes, and yes you do

3) you could try, but it will cost you money and may not be successful 

4) more likely a different claim etc

5) there is nothing illegal about employing a contractor, no laws against it ,  only the 2 parties involved know what is in the contract 

6) no

7) yes, CEL do sue people in court 

Coupon-mad

It's not risky at all and you were right not to pay.  PPC court claims are easy to defend & you risk no CCJ or huge costs by simply following what you will have read about (before posting) in the 2nd post of the NEWBIES thread.

You'll be safe following our advice.

Smellopee

Thanks so much both @Coupon-mad & @Gr1pr I have emailed the template response to office@ce-service.co.uk and Legal3@ce-service.co.uk hoping that's right

- Am I supposed to expect an answer back from them? If so is there a time limit? When can I breathe and know I'm done with this?

- Or am I suppose to get the paperwork ready for court now?

- When is it safe for me to leave a negative google review for my GP and direct people to this forum so that other patients that are having the same issue know what to do?

Thank you

Half_way

The NHS principles in part just re-enforce the fact that the principal is liable for the actions of its agents.

You could send a letter before action to your GP surgery instructing them to instruct their agents, the un regulated parking company Civil enforcement limited, to cancel/cease any and all legal action, otherwise you will be holding them liable for your costs which currently stand at X hours x £18 and XYZ other costs

As for when is it safe to leave a negative review, do it now

halfbee

Hi @smellopee your story sounds very similar to mine. I'm due in court early next month, hopefully CEL will discontinue beforehand.  https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6529224/court-claim-from-cel/p1?new=1

The_Slithy_Tove

What did the surgery say when you brought up the issue of breaching patient confidentiality with their dodgy parking scheme? For example, if you were using someone else's car to visit the doctor on a sensitive issue you didn't want others to know about, the registered keeper then gets a notice telling them that their car (being used by you) was at the doctors, and they want to know why you were there. In such a case, the surgery has carried out actions that puts you in an awkward position that they shouldn't have done.

Coupon-mad

All surgeries using CEL to attack their patients should be forced to watch this video (a GP's grovelling apology) as the penny finally dropped at Yarm Medical Practice after they had initially blamed patients for getting angry:

https://www.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=812074820923096&id=100063617558246

It should send a shiver up the spines of other surgeries as they realise what they've done, and scurry to cancel the contract asap and get the keypads & cameras removed.

Smellopee

The_Slithy_Tove said:

What did the surgery say when you brought up the issue of breaching patient confidentiality with their dodgy parking scheme? For example, if you were using someone else's car to visit the doctor on a sensitive issue you didn't want others to know about, the registered keeper then gets a notice telling them that their car (being used by you) was at the doctors, and they want to know why you were there. In such a case, the surgery has carried out actions that puts you in an awkward position that they shouldn't have done.

I did not think about the patient confidentiality. I went made the mistake of replying to their letter admitting it was me sending proff of appointment at the time I used the car park thinking it would get the fine cancelled. Surgery does not care, this was their response

'The carpark company are a legitimate BPA approved company.

We are a private businesses providing patient services under a GMS contract. The surgery is owned by the proprietor not the NHS. We are not under the same regulations as ie: Hospitals'

Smellopee

halfbee said:

Hi @smellopee your story sounds very similar to mine. I'm due in court early next month, hopefully CEL will discontinue beforehand.  https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6529224/court-claim-from-cel/p1?new=1

@halfbee very similar indeed! Can't believe you're still having to deal with this since May. Wishing you the best. Please let me know how you get on if you have a chance.

Smellopee

Half_way said:

The NHS principles in part just re-enforce the fact that the principal is liable for the actions of its agents.

You could send a letter before action to your GP surgery instructing them to instruct their agents, the un regulated parking company Civil enforcement limited, to cancel/cease any and all legal action, otherwise you will be holding them liable for your costs which currently stand at X hours x £18 and XYZ other costs

As for when is it safe to leave a negative review, do it now

@Half_way are they considered unregulated if they are BPA approved? Can I safely leave a review on Google with my actual name?