Claim form received for parking in business park

Coupon-mad

Only doing a WS just a week before? Your WS is late then. Oh dear.

Has the Claimant complied with the hearing Order re their WS but you are late?

When you show us your draft WS for quick comments before emailing it, replace EVERYTHING including and after the 'Exaggerated Claim' sub-heading (the overly-long waffly version that you may have found and copied from someone's recent WS, we assume?) with paragraphs 4-10 of the new Template Defence instead.

Yes I know this is a WS! Trust me. 

Gr1pr

You cannot just turn up and present anything to the judge 

Your Witness Statement plus Exhibits would have been due to be submitted either 2 weeks before the hearing,  or possibly more,  possibly 4 weeks before the hearing date , so probably early July 

I hope that you have submitted them to the court and to the lawyers  ( or claimant   ) already  ?

Unless you are asked to speak in court,  you won't be speaking,  or possibly only answering questions 

You cannot submit paperwork or evidence on the day, it doesn't work that way,  so wont be accepted,  meaning inadmissible,  binned 

Your court order told you what to do,  with a deadline,  so must be complied with 

If you lose, you can and should verbally object to the extra charges like the £70 and interest 

milzero

Hi @Coupon-mad @Gr1pr Thanks for coming back to me and apologies that I wasn't clear. Don't worry I already submitted my WS back in March this year (I actually rang the Court and they have confirmed they got it). The draft I mentioned was not for WS it is for me to articulate my arguments in the Court day. My plan is that if I am given a chance to talk in the Court, I will mention the above 3 points. My only concern is that the argument of poorly formed POC may not be valid anymore as the Claimant has added those missing details in their own WS, but as @Gr1pr just said it seems I may not even be given the chance to speak in Court unless being asked to do so? Many thanks. 

Gr1pr

The judge will direct proceedings,  but by all means understand your case, answer questions and know what you might say, possibly using a crib sheet or skeleton argument 

If the judge asks you to speak about the case,  fair enough,  but if they have decided to dismiss it or whatever,  you might only confirm your name,  and say thank you at the end 

Read a few post case reports on here,  see what happened in concluded cases 

milzero

Thanks @Gr1pr sure will do. 

Le_Kirk

Phew, thank goodness your WS is in!  Its great to have a crib sheet with pointers to where your main arguments are to be found in your defence and WS.  Resist the temptation to actually construct a crib sheet or skeleton argument that is longer than your actual WS.  Your crib sheet can only point to existing arguments in defence and WS; you cannot add new points at this stage.  Good luck at the hearing.

milzero

Thanks @Le_Kirk! 

milzero

hi guys, just want to post my update here. The hearing is finished and I lost. While the judge agreed that the small print on the signs are too small for the extra £70 additional cost to take effect he thinks my view on the indemnity cost being unfair doesn't stand. Even though I already quoted the CMA paragraph he simply thinks in these court cases the claimant is entitled to seek cost based on indemnity basis.....

What's most shocking is that despite my pic in WS clearly showing the total darkness of the environment (that contract signage can barely seen as a rectangle silhouette) the judge points to another pic from the Claimant saying that there is some street light on the street behind the plate and thus I should be able to see the sign. I refuted this point in front of the judge saying the pic is misleading because the pic was taken with the flash light. The judge agreed my point but still thinks the street light in the background has shed enough light on the signs for me to see.

At this stage I am so shocked and frustrated, and of course while I want to appeal I need to balance between what I feel and the reality. It costs money to appeal and I don't even know if there is a good chance for the appeal to be accepted in the application phase let alone the win rate in the appeal court. And I was told that I will need to make the decision in 14 days so I will almost need to decide this day or two. Will greatly appreciate your feedback especially on what is likely to happen in appeal case. I also wonder if this has become a general approach from judges these days (to have these kind of decisions) or did I just happen to have faced a biased judge? Many thanks. 

Here is the photo from which I point out the darkness of the environment  

Here is the photo taken with flash light from the Claimant. The judge accepted my point about the flash light and do not accept this photo to be used as an evidence, but still thinks the street light in the background is enough to illuminate the plate.... 

Coupon-mad

Wow. Bad luck. Judge Bingo.

Where exactly is the sign? Can't see it!

You could ask Contestor Legal if they see grounds to appeal. Google them. Be quick. But it is fairly rare because you must show the judge erred, not that you 'don't agree'.

I share your anger. As revenge:

Now read this message and please prepare to join us to do the Public Consultation once we've discussed it in August.

It's vital the Government hears from Defendants threatened by court. Tell your story. Shoehorn it in somewhere, maybe in answer to why cases go to court (q13 or 14):

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81552148/#Comment_81552148

Please bookmark the main thread linked in that link.

Come back in August to take part.

We need to drown out the 'alternative facts' from the parking industry and their relatives posing as ordinary motorist consumers.

milzero

Thanks @Coupon-mad. Sure I will ask them and see what they say and also join the public consultation. 

It's the sign circled in yellow (Yes dark and with small prints I know!). I understand what you said about having to prove that the judge actually erred. My standpoint is if the judge does not accept the flash light taken photo to be used as evidence, then how can he say the street light in the background have illuminated the plate enough to be seen based on this exact photo? If he judge reached the above decision based on my photo, then it's totally dark and the sign is nowhere to be seen.....but yea I will certainly raise this to Contester Legal and update you.