When does a shift start?

Emmia

datlex said:

Emmia said:

When I did hourly paid work, I had to be ready to work as soon as my shift started - so at the counter in the cafe, at the bar in the pub, at my desk in the office... One job had a 20min walk from the bus stop to the place I worked in, those 20mins x 2 each day were not part of my shift. 

Out of interest was the bus stop at the premises you worked at, i.e. a layby at the site entrance?

It was slightly down the road from the security gates, I'd enter change and then walk to my workplace - which was some distance from the staff entrance. I'd only clock in for my shift when I got to the cafe where I worked as that was where the clocking in machine was. All the time before that was unpaid.

Once my shift ended, I'd clock out then walk back to the staff area, change and then wait to get the bus back - all unpaid.

theoretica

My understanding is if you *have* to be doing things for your work - including logging in, walking from the nearest door - that counts as work time for things like minimum wage calculations. *However* employers do not have to pay one person at only one pay rate and so are legally allowed to say that this time is unpaid so long as the average pay is above minimum wage, and maximum working hours not exceeded. 

Emmia

I'd add, that the job described above was before minimum wage legislation was in place.

EnPointe

datlex said:

Something I have been wondering for a while is when legally do shifts start/end.
Does a work day / shift start from when you reach the premises and pass through the necessary entrance/ turnstile or from when you are signed into work/ready to work?  In my own case the actual office is an 8 minute walk across site accessed via a turnstile after parking in staff car park or getting of bus at entrance in both directions.(16 mins per day 228 days a year). What if your PC/work station or getting into work PPE/uniform takes 5-10 minutes to set up before you can actually work- is that preparation time part of your hours?  

As other replies have said NMW /NLW  can come into play if people are paid NMW/NLW  or very close to it 

often  there is an expectation that  you  will be  at youre place of work  by the start of your shift , and if  there is a formal clocking in process  you must  have atl east clocked in by  the  start time 

I've worked in healthcare settings were there was no formal clocking in, but if you  werent  on your clinical area  and ready to go by the  start of your shift , words would be being had , but  equally there wasa bit of management discretion there  so the occasional walking through the door  or  coupel of minutes late would  be let slide 

I've worked in  industrialsettings with security gates  and the like  you  were required to be  through the gate and  clocked in by  the  start time of your shift  and expected to be at  your  work place  ( more departments than clocking in machines)

I've worked in food settings where you are expected to be clocked in, ready to go and have washed your hands by  your start time 

I've worked for the ambulance service ,  which was pretty lacksidaisical but there was a  degree of peer pressure plus  team leaders / asseesors / Station Officers would be  watching  the  norm was  to be  on station by  your start time  and many peopel would start checking  a vehicle ( if one was available) a few minutes before shift start ...   the system didn't indicate a 'problem'  until 15 minutes  after  the  planned start time for a shift, but  at the 15 minute point you  would be expected to be a full crew  who had a  vehicle ready to go  ( alternatively  EOC/ Tac Cell would  have  had a verbal  report on why  you weren't ready )

Requiring people to be at  their work station  before their statrt time so they are logged in  etc  and ready to go gets into ropey  ground  

(in one logistics setting i worked in   we did 12 hours  4 on 4 off  , workload / capacity calaculation was based on 10.5 productive hours a day  1 hour of breaks and 15  minutes  each end for setup and tidy away )

EnPointe

datlex said:

born_again said:

What are the timings on your contract?

From a union perspective they will say when you enter the premises (clock on)
Business tend to say when you start work.

Interesting that unions and businesses say different,

 where the unions and business have a  decent relationship  the  usual outcome is 

The business 'likes ' people to be at their workplace  by shift start but won't  penalise those who have clocked in on time unless and until there are other performance / attitudinal issues issues

If work is not a continuous process  there is usually  a bit if discretion about  how the 'tidy up , wash up , clean down ' element of the shift  operates assuming that the  allocated  quantity  of work  is done  on a departmental basis 

elsien

Whether the car park is on company grounds or not, I still wouldn’t expect a walk from there to your workstation to form part of your working day. 

TELLIT01

I would say it should be when you are at your point of work and therefore available to do your work.  It should not be expected that a member of staff would turn up x minutes early because it takes that amount of time for their computer/machine etc to get to usable state.

mr_stripey

I mean, it's obvious really isn't it? You should be ready to start work at the time your shift starts.

The exact build up to that point will vary on workplace environment etc. Consider a nurse arriving for their shift. Hospitals are massive and it can easily take 10 minutes or more from parking up to arriving on the ward. 

Ideally the worker should be arriving a few minutes before so grabbing a coffee, chit chat with colleagues etc can be out of the way in time for starting work.

I can't see how the walk from car to workstation can be considered work time.

DullGreyGuy

In my call centre days it was all about the time you were logged into the phone system. Almost everyone came in 5-10 minutes before their shift (in part to get the better seat), log on, setup the desk and hit the logon button at exactly 08:00 or whatever your time was. 

If you did get in late/cutting it fine the first thing you did was put on the headset and log onto the phone and potentially start talking to the first customer whilst you're still trying to get your coat off and log in to the computer... you just hoped it was one of those callers that wanted to talk first rather than one that instantly gave you their account number etc. 

Similarly you were expected to be available until 17:00, or whatever time your shift ended so if you got a call at 16:59 you had to see it through. AHT was about 5 minutes and you wouldn't get anything extra for logging off at 17:04 but if the call went 15 minutes beyond the end of the shift you were supposed to raise it with the team leader who'd authorise the extra time added. Some people had tricks, take themselves off available and back on in the last couple of minutes to put themselves at the back of the list of available agents, "accidentally" cutting someone off etc. Many people would be putting coats on, clearing desks etc whilst on the phone to their last caller. 

When I first started in call centres NMW wasnt a thing, later in my decade of call centre it was but monies were always above NMW so chances that a couple of minutes either side causing a problem were non-existent. 


ACAS states its when you are at your employers disposal that work starts, not the most helpful of language and there are minimal examples other than to say your commute to a fixed place of work isn't included but travel time between customers normally will be. 

Sarahspangles

When I supervised construction sites it was never very clear how travel time was handled if you weren’t in the office that day. It wasn’t an issue before flexitime was introduced as people simply stuck to a routine of leaving for work at the same time, but with flexitime if you didn’t key in at the office you had to put something down on a paper form.

In the end they confirmed that you had to work it out as if we started at the time we would have been at the office, had that been where we drove to, unless we actually got to site earlier. There were still debates about what you should do if your site was miles long and you had to drive or walk to the cabins.

They then fiddled with the mileage rules to bring the mileage claim in line with the policy. I was asked to keep quiet that while other people lost out by a few £100s I was owed way over £1k which in those days was a luxury holiday!