When does a shift start?

datlex

Something I have been wondering for a while is when legally do shifts start/end.
Does a work day / shift start from when you reach the premises and pass through the necessary entrance/ turnstile or from when you are signed into work/ready to work?  In my own case the actual office is an 8 minute walk across site accessed via a turnstile after parking in staff car park or getting of bus at entrance in both directions.(16 mins per day 228 days a year). What if your PC/work station or getting into work PPE/uniform takes 5-10 minutes to set up before you can actually work- is that preparation time part of your hours?  

born_again

What are the timings on your contract?

From a union perspective they will say when you enter the premises (clock on)
Business tend to say when you start work.

swingaloo

If its an 8 minute walk after parking your car then surely you would allow for that in your commute timing. If you are waiting for a shop to open at 9am and the assistant turns up at 14 mins past as they have to walk from the car park is that ok?
Everywhere I have worked I was paid to work the shift at whatever time it started so if I was expected to take calls at 8am in a call centre I needed to be ready when the calls started and not in the locker room putting my coat away. 
Why would you be paid until you are signed in ready to work? 

Savvy_Sue

born_again said:

What are the timings on your contract?

From a union perspective they will say when you enter the premises (clock on)
Business tend to say when you start work.

swingaloo said:

If its an 8 minute walk after parking your car then surely you would allow for that in your commute timing. If you are waiting for a shop to open at 9am and the assistant turns up at 14 mins past as they have to walk from the car park is that ok?
Everywhere I have worked I was paid to work the shift at whatever time it started so if I was expected to take calls at 8am in a call centre I needed to be ready when the calls started and not in the locker room putting my coat away. 
Why would you be paid until you are signed in ready to work? 

I'd agree with both of these.

What does your contract say your hours of work are?

Do you have a formal clocking on and off system / time clock / does the turnstile record who's gone through it? 

If you record when you are ready to start work (ie not when you pass through the turnstile), then I agree you'd add the time from car park to workstation to your commute. And if that time varies, you need to allow for that variation! Just as when I was catching a bus or train to work, I needed to allow for cancellation and late running! 

maman

Unless there's a reason (like doors not open) why you can't get there  then I'd agree that your shift starts from the allotted time at your work station not from when you park the car.

Similarly it ends at the allotted time at your work station not 8 minutes earlier so you can walk back.🤣

datlex

born_again said:

What are the timings on your contract?

From a union perspective they will say when you enter the premises (clock on)
Business tend to say when you start work.

Interesting that unions and businesses say different,

Emmia

When I did hourly paid work, I had to be ready to work as soon as my shift started - so at the counter in the cafe, at the bar in the pub, at my desk in the office... One job had a 20min walk from the bus stop to the place I worked in, those 20mins x 2 each day were not part of my shift. 

Newbie_John

I think it's really down to the contract, if shop is open 9-17 then your time "between" entrance and being ready doesn't count, similar in factory working shifts 0-8-16-24 you need to be ready to start so others can leave.

But interesting case really, my contract doesn't say much - just quotes 37.5h with quite flexible start/end times but no idea what are the requirements, when I walk in to the building (with a pass), when I get into office (with a pass), when I sit down at my desk, set up laptop and everything, when I actually do first actual work? 
I guess probably not the moment of entering the building as I could then have breakfast in the kitchen, take shower, have a chat with security guy and start work 1h later.. 

I would imagine the "10 mins" each way to be a grey area, if you get your work done well - nobody cares if you start leaving at 16:50, but if you're slow, then it could be brought up and used as argument that you waste 20 mins a day, nearly 2h a week..

datlex

swingaloo said:

If its an 8 minute walk after parking your car then surely you would allow for that in your commute timing. If you are waiting for a shop to open at 9am and the assistant turns up at 14 mins past as they have to walk from the car park is that ok?
Everywhere I have worked I was paid to work the shift at whatever time it started so if I was expected to take calls at 8am in a call centre I needed to be ready when the calls started and not in the locker room putting my coat away. 
Why would you be paid until you are signed in ready to work? 

Car Park is at site premises to be clear not a public one.  It takes a certain time to walk from cars to the turnstile ( not included in the 8 minutes)
Ref why paid until ready to work- if you cannot put on PPE or uniform until at work surely that should be part of your hours

Newbie_John said:

I think it's really down to the contract, if shop is open 9-17 then your time "between" entrance and being ready doesn't count, similar in factory working shifts 0-8-16-24 you need to be ready to start so others can leave.

But interesting case really, my contract doesn't say much - just quotes 37.5h with quite flexible start/end times but no idea what are the requirements, when I walk in to the building (with a pass), when I get into office (with a pass), when I sit down at my desk, set up laptop and everything, when I actually do first actual work? 
I guess probably not the moment of entering the building as I could then have breakfast in the kitchen, take shower, have a chat with security guy and start work 1h later.. 

I would imagine the "10 mins" each way to be a grey area, if you get your work done well - nobody cares if you start leaving at 16:50, but if you're slow, then it could be brought up and used as argument that you waste 20 mins a day, nearly 2h a week..

I would expect an overlap between shifts any ways for handovers

Ref shops, I believe some large shops have been caught out for not paying staff for time taken for security checks at start of shifts amongst other things as they took those staff below minimum wage.

Ref breakfast*, shower, chat with security could do all of that after signing in and starting. *work butty runs (sanctioned by our HR) ;-) But equally a manager could engage you in conversation related to work or you could be asked to help a colleague before you can sign in. 

As it happens most people where I work get in early anyways due to traffic and public transport even allowing for the walk across site. (most office based arrive by 07:45 even though start is 8 am), but if we have an appointment we are not expected to make up the time. And never an issue if get held up on odd occasions as more than covered the time.

I do wonder how it would work for minimum wage workers, there's a difference between things beyond control such as a walk across a restricted entry premises, preparations at premises to work and social interactions that delay starting work.

It has been interesting to read thoughts of folk :-)

datlex

Emmia said:

When I did hourly paid work, I had to be ready to work as soon as my shift started - so at the counter in the cafe, at the bar in the pub, at my desk in the office... One job had a 20min walk from the bus stop to the place I worked in, those 20mins x 2 each day were not part of my shift. 

Out of interest was the bus stop at the premises you worked at, i.e. a layby at the site entrance?

Savvy_Sue

datlex said:

born_again said:

What are the timings on your contract?

From a union perspective they will say when you enter the premises (clock on)
Business tend to say when you start work.

Interesting that unions and businesses say different,

The thing is that if there's a formal, fixed system for 'clocking on' and off again, then the union will argue that those fixed records are the ones to be used. So if the employer requires your attendance to be logged at some distance from where you actually work, a sensible employer would ensure it doesn't then take you half an hour to get to your actual place of work. 

datlex said:

Ref why paid until ready to work- if you cannot put on PPE or uniform until at work surely that should be part of your hours

Yup. As should all those jobs which need to be done after customers have left the premises. 

It's an issue where workers are on NMW / NLW, and workers can force the issue.