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Lasting Power of Attorney Advice

I'm arranging a Lasting Power of Attorney (both for finance and health/welfare) for my mother next week via a solicitor. I've carried out a fair bit of research but would greatly appreciate any feedback from someone who has already has a Lasting Power of Attorney.

The most important point I came across was not to tick the box that states "I only want the LPA to take effect when I have lost mental capacity" - I can see the sense in this as if ticked, a GP would have to decide and authorise this loss of mental capacity and this effectively gives them control so pretty much makes the LPA pointless.

Another extremely important point (and the main reason I'm setting up an LPA!) is to ensure that my mother does not have a DNR (A Do Not Resuscitate) order. Do I need to register this with the NHS as soon as possible or is it a case of showing the form to the doctor or paramedic should this situation arise in the future?

I've read about the importance of signing the documents "in the right order" and signing them all with the same date - I'm not sure of the significance of the right order?

Once the LPA is set up, do I need to register it online with the Office of Public Guardian?

Is it best to purchase several certified copies of the LPA or is it all done by a digital certificate that can be distributed to the banks etc

Once the LPA is set up, should I contact the banks etc straightaway or wait until it is actually needed should my mother become incapacitated. I've also heard that utility companies should be contacted but I'm not sure of the relevance of this?

The solicitor will naturally be charging a fee which I will pay them but I understand that I should pay the Office of Public Guardian independently for the £82 per LPA fee - I've read that it is best to pay this by cheque, is this correct?

Any other advice regarding LPAs would be greatly appreciated. 

Many thanks in advance.

Comments

  • Savvy_Sue
    Savvy_Sue Posts: 46,889 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Remember it's your mother's wishes which you're actioning: it may just be the way you've worded it, but you must have that clear in your own mind. You will be HER Attorney, but it's always and only "what's in her best interests?" for finance (at least once she loses capacity) and "what would she want?" for health.

    In answer to one question: yes, register it as soon as you can: it will take a while, but you want that limbo to pass while she retains capacity, ie before you have to have it in order to act for her.
    Signature removed for peace of mind
  • tacpot12
    tacpot12 Posts: 9,007 Forumite
    Ninth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 17 October 2024 at 9:30PM
    If the donor ticks the box to say that they only want the LPA to take effect when they have lost capacity, then it is the attorney that needs to decide if they have lost capacity, not a GP. The main advantage to not ticking the box is that the donor can ask the attorney for help to manage their financial affairs before they have lost capacity. 

    As your primary aim is to ensure that you mother doesn't have a DNR, you need to be aware that you cannot override your mother's wishes IF she has capacity. If she has capacity, she can ask for a DNR, and you can't stop her if her doctors agree she has capacity. You could ask the OPG to rule of whether she has capacity, and they should prioritise the decision as it is likely to be time-critical, but they might decide that she does, and if so, the decision remains with her. 

    There is no way to register with the NHS that you don't want a DNR. You can register a DNR (on a DNACPR form) or you can write an Advance Decision to Refuse Treatment (ADRT), but you can't  say you don't want a DNR as this is the default position. The most important thing you can do if your mother has to move to a care home or is admited to hospital is have the staff add notes to her records to say that you have a LPA for her Health and Welfare. This should mean you are properly consulted on your mother's care.

    You should review the information here: Do not attempt cardiopulmonary resuscitation (DNACPR) decisions - NHS (www.nhs.uk) 

    You can pay the solicitor for certified copies of the LPAs, but as an attorney, you can also certify your own copies at no cost (you might want to buy a stamp like this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Certify-Corresponding-Original-Lasting-Attorney/dp/B0CB726FJ8/  to help avoid RSI while you write the required words on all the  pages. Solicitors will use these stamps.) While many Banks and some other oganisations can use the access codes that can be generated via the online sharing service for LPAs, not all can, so you might need some certified copies, or you might not. It's best to have the ability to make as many as you need at no cost. 

    The order of signing is incredibly important to the OPG, as it ensures that safeguards within the LPA are properly activated. One of the main reasons why the OPG refuses to register LPAs is that the pages are signed out of order. The best was to manage this is to have the donor, all attorneys, witnesses and the Certificate Provider all sign on the same day. Anything else is asking for trouble. 

    I would register the LPA immediately, i.e. send the form off and pay the fee. I can't comment about whether paying by cheque is better than paying any other way. 

    I would only send the LPA copy (or access code) to a bank when your mother has lost capacity OR she asks you to help her manager her accounts with that specific bank. 
    The comments I post are my personal opinion. While I try to check everything is correct before posting, I can and do make mistakes, so always try to check official information sources before relying on my posts.
  • BR5500
    BR5500 Posts: 27 Forumite
    10 Posts First Anniversary
    Many thanks for the replies, much appreciated. 
  • elsien
    elsien Posts: 35,044 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 18 October 2024 at 6:56AM

    If the finance LPA,is,set up to take effect while your mum has capacity, you use it with her consent. So my grandmother allowed my father to use it for finances because she couldn't physically get to the bank. All decisions were  still hers so they had regular conversations about what her aims were.
    The health LPA can't be used until someone loses capacity but as capacity is time and decision specific your mother in the future may have capacity for some decisions but not others. So you and the relevant professionals must help her make her own where she can.


    Just to add that you cannot insist that doctors try to resuscitate. If they think CPR will be futile then they simply have to inform the person/their relatives and can legally put a DNAR in place and that is purely a medical decision.

    If it is more finely balanced then there is a discussion around the pros and cons. So as an example for some one frail, with poor physical healfh, with dementia which means they don't understand all the drips and tubes sticking out of them and keep trying to pull then out, CPR is probably going to give them broken ribs and a painful more prolonged undignified death. 

    These are the conversations you need to be having now with your mother. It's not just about resuscitation. It's about as she gets older where the balance sits between comfort and active treatment. Her views and yours may differ  and it's hers you must bear in mind in the future.
    In some areas decisions about resuscitation are amalgamated into Respect forms which contain this scale - have a look in the resuscitation website because your mother can have this discussion with her GP now if she wishes.
    Again though these documents are not set in stone and should be updated with changes in her health or preferences. 
     
    When I did the LPAs with my mother I gave her printed copies of the form so she had time to look through and think about any instructions. She kept the musts to a minimum but talking it through was really helpful as some things she said did surprise me. Just
    I also suggested she made an advanced decision (living will) , but she's never got round to that. 
    https://compassionindying.org.uk/?gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIx_nK6qaXiQMVQJNQBh3D5A_iEAAYAyAAEgIN1_D_BwE

    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
  • FlorayG
    FlorayG Posts: 1,525 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    "Another extremely important point (and the main reason I'm setting up an LPA!) is to ensure that my mother does not have a DNR (A Do Not Resuscitate) order."
    Is that what your mother wants? Sorry but it reads as if that's what you want and in opposition to her
  • Savvy_Sue
    Savvy_Sue Posts: 46,889 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    elsien said:

    Just to add that you cannot insist that doctors try to resuscitate. If they think CPR will be futile then they simply have to inform the person/their relatives and can legally put a DNAR in place and that is purely a medical decision.

    That's well put. When my late mother went into hospital, she wasn't expected to last the night. We made it clear that she would NOT want to be resuscitated if her heart stopped and the geriatrician said "oh no, we wouldn't do that, it would be a complete waste of time in this situation". 

    So your mum may feel that she'd want absolutely everything possible to be done to keep her alive, and that's fine. We were clear from conversations with Mum that if she couldn't go home and carry on living independently, she'd be very unhappy, so she would not have wanted interventions which were unlikely to give that outcome. 
    Signature removed for peace of mind
  • bunnygo
    bunnygo Posts: 159 Forumite
    Ninth Anniversary 100 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    your mother's wishes are paramount. Time for the awkward conversation about resuscitation. Be aware of what is involved and its success rate...
  • BR5500 said:

    Another extremely important point (and the main reason I'm setting up an LPA!) is to ensure that my mother does not have a DNR (A Do Not Resuscitate) order. Do I need to register this with the NHS as soon as possible or is it a case of showing the form to the doctor or paramedic should this situation arise in the future?.
    If this is the main reason for setting up a LPA then please note that as a LPA, you are there to advocate on your mother's behalf and expressed any wishes she may have (in a situation where she is unable to express them for herself) but the decision to perform CPR (or not perform CPR) is ultimately a medical decision. 

    Have you actually discussed this with your mum? Do you know what her thoughts are on the matter? Reading between the lines it sounds like perhaps her GP has brought this up in conversation and there's mistrust on your side. It may be worth researching what CPR actually entails (it's a brutal process) and the chances of success (and even more importantly the chances of making it out of hospital with good function). 
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