E.ON not notifying late father of cheaper tariff

Scot_39

AdamS9 said:

Gerry1 said:

Seems to be some confusion here.

• Being on a Fixed / Standard Variable Tariff and having Economy 7 are not inter-dependent, they are completely separate parameters.

• How many electricity meters are there?  Unlikely to be two except for a few legacy tariffs.  With E7 there's usually only one meter but it will have (at least) two registers, one active during the day and one overnight.

• Was your father on the Priority Services Register?  He could have had have regular visits from a meter reader.

• Send meter readings today.  You may find the bill is lower than the estimate.

• Ofgem's priced capped SVT rates have been in place for almost six years, so he may not have been price gouged as much as you fear.  After the energy crisis the SVT was usually the cheapest tariff available unless you were still on a good fix that hadn't expired.

Thanks for your reply.

His house has 2 very old looking meters and a mechanical timer wired to one of them between the meter and the circuit with the storage heaters (and a separate consumer unit). On his bills the 2 meters are separate and the standing charges for one of them are waived.

He had a meter reader come and read his meters.

I sent meter readings and got a small amount of credit back as we'd turned everything off a month or two before dealing with the energy company but otherwise it was quite accurate since reader last visited across both meters for total units used. My hope was that there was an Economy7 tariff he could have been on for the last few years and him not being told about it would mean some money could be claimed back for the units used on the 2nd meter connected to the timer (the timer is sealed with a security tag like the meters so I assume it belongs to and was fitted by the DNO), which should have been at a cheaper night rate? The vast majority of his energy use through a year was through the 2nd meter and storage heaters.

So I guess my questions are:
- Were Econ7 tariffs even a thing over the last few years? (we're in the sticks with oil heating so never looked into it)
- If they were, should he have been told about it on his bills?

Sorry - this came in when doing my longer response

Yes E7 certainly did exist - but so do legacy multirate - RTS or otherwise - if your timer just looks like an electromechanical clock - it's likely to be a fixed off peak time - non rts set-up.

We would need the tariff name - when rates were differenet and now.

I assume both meters are still recording use.

There is IIRC still over 2m homes on E7 - some c800m RTS remaining in late spring (May/June report - data maybe Mar?) iirc - and only about 100,000 on non RTS legacy tariffs like me.

If you or he were submitting 2 readings rather than 1 - the supplier - was not only aware of the twin rate meter setup - but either billing you on Economy 7 or the multitude of legacy tariffs - but often optionally on single rate.

I am only aware of one situation where a supplier - it was actually EOn - ended up converting legacy to SingleRate - and that was caused by customer not taking up the offer of another multirate deal - despite several letters warning of that outcome.

But as my above post - possibly 100,000s have requested suppliers bill them at single rate on such dual meter set-ups - in the knowledge - or just - belief it was cheaper for them.

Look at what bills you can find - and see if there is change at some point.
The problem is e7 night rares maybe cheaper than  sr - but day rates lasting 17 hrs a day are significantly more.  And sometimes people don't do the maths to work out tge valance of average costs for them.

EOn Next might even be able to tell you if, when and why any change occurred - if account still open.

I often have to look online to see what the tariff offers were on my E10 bills - variable or fixed (and now pledge fixed term) - flat of e7 etc -  they were needless to say never direct E10 based alternatives - they only offered E10 as a legacy variable rate tariff.

EssexHebridean

Scot_39 said:

Historically vanilla E7 if anything probably a little less common in Scotland.
The fixed 7 hrs just not enough in many cases.
The SP white meter was 8.5 hrs for instance.
Think IIRC SP had - well last supplier breakdown early this year data late last - the most oustanding complex rts metering customers remaining in use.
Schemes like THTC in North by SSE (Ovo iirc now) gave upto 12 hours irc, SP - tariffs some plain seasonal others iirc with Weathercall in name even more dynamic as  forecasts were used to adapt timings for comfort for ex - nsh style heating only circuits - in South.

This was the exact reason why I said “E7 type tariffs” 

AdamS9

Gerry1 said:

Does the bill actually state 'Economy 7'?  With E7 there's usually only one meter, albeit multi-rate.  E7 was launched in late 1978.

I'm wondering whether it's a White Meter.  This was the forerunner of E7.  The meter had a distinctive bright white metal case.

It gave eight hours at the lower rate but the E7 discount was greater.  White Meters weren't limited to Scotland.

How many meter readings are shown on each bill?

Update Reference to White Meters only supplying the overnight circuits deleted.  That might be the case with your FIL's setup (hence the extra meter) but I don't think it was necessarily always the case.

Thanks for the reply Gerry1, neither of his meters are that white one, they look a fair bit older to me. Will get a picture next time I'm there.

Two meter readings on each bill, both charged at same rate and standing charges for one waived.

Scot_39 said:

You do realise EOn Next do 2 standard variable tariffs - both regulated by Ofgem caps since 2019  - one single rate, one (most likely economy 7 or E7) multirate ?

At one stage iirc both might be Next Flex or one Next Flex E7 - (my legacy e10 is after bespoke name for many years now simply Next Flex E10 since mid 2023).

And for legacy customers like me only still support tariffs like E10  - at least until next meter swap.

You need to check bills and how many readings given and whether has day / night rates in tariff tables. What was billed for and the exact tariff names and rates - and check for any changes.

EOn Next have regularly informed me for years - perhaps as legacy e10rates are higher than e7 - on regular monthly statements - of cheaper deals - possibly though only because i am on legacy deal.  (I would swap to e7 - but might have to swap to new heaters to do so - pre crisis the payback e7 vs e10 was getting on nearly 20 yrs on the c£3k investment so didnt do it)

They do have to have a cheaper relevant tariff selection  iirc - but not just any other tariff.  But they do offer me non e10 tariffs flex and fixes / even pledge cap tracker just about every monthly statement - so not sure what rules are on "relevant".

If the meter type was twin register/ rate e.g. e7 - your dad should not have ordinarily been on single rate but most likely economy 7 these days. 

But many suppliers including iirc EOn Next would allow customers to request single rate billing even with 2 meters - just charging flat single rate for both readings.  In most non winter hearing  months my bills would often be a little cheaper on single rate - e7 probably even more so - he might have easily been the same.

When I lost rts emeb heatwise legacy metering setup many years ago - I was offered a choice of 

e10 - multirate same 3 off peak slots daily but more expensive rates 

or

standard single rate.  

A neighbour who didn't respond in time because of costs (my estimate about 27%) - was actually given a sr meter. He needed to move to altogether another supplier and have his own electrician present when they came to fit e7.

And with nsh it is always likely - but not guaranteed - to be cheaper on e7 - as you typically need 35-40% at off peak for it to beat flat rate. 

My bills are a fraction of your dads £5-6k.  But have read - articles in Scottish press - where even mid sized 3 bed terraced family homes off gas grid were getting bills well into £3-4k range.

The dual fuel cap median  tdcv allows 11,500 kWh for gas for heat, hw, coking etc - at single rate electric rates of 24.5p per kWh that's would be near £2800, but at gas's 6.4p ave rate only £736.  Add the 2700kWh allowed for other electric = £660.
Already looking at £3500 vs £1400 excl SC.  Another c£330 DF, £220 electric only.
It's a quite difficult price difference for many used to decades of cheap mains gas to grasp.

But just to make sure - are you sure  they are real not estimated or a catch up for past underestimates ?

You may have to read the statements / bills if have access - going back years in some cases if long term estimated - possibly requesting from EOn as estate executor. 

And critically as others have pointed out check at least final bills against the real meter readings at time of death and potentially now at time of sale.  One iirc for accounts for hmrc estate and probate application, one before final sale and asset distribution if relevant.



Re 2nd part.

YES - Fischer (As in Fischer Future Heat UK Ltd) are almost infamous on this board for past sales claims for panels. 

They were threatened with court by Leicester trading standards few years ago.  In end it was settled out of court with a promise of lump sum to allow council to compensate past clients (well by this summary - at least those with already registered complaints with them they used as basis for that court action).

Its worth a glance at the list of their failures their I guess UK directors had to sign up to.

Thanks Scot_39 for this and your later reply -- lots of helpful information there, cheers!

I'll go through all the bills I can find and ask them for older ones and when dual rate changed to single rate. From the look I had before, I don't remember seeing a "cheaper relevant tariff" section on his bills, so unfortunately it sounds like what la531983 said applies -- only required to tell single rate customers of cheaper single rate tariffs and dual rate customers of cheaper dual rate tariffs? I'll have another look though.

The large sums being due to clawback for previous years is a possibility so I'll look into that as well.

I didn't realise Outfox the Market was the same tricksters as Fischer... we were with them for a while (back when leccy was 10p/unit!) and they were cheap but getting excess account credit back was a headache!

EssexHebridean said:

Is your FIL's house in Scotland by any chance? The 2 meter thing and E7 type tariffs are quite a common thing up there. 

E7 is still very much a thing and a lot of folk are still on E7 tariffs. they can work really well, but work best with some interaction. Without question that is also when they work at their most economical.

Not in Scotland no, down South, which is one reason I was so shocked by the bills being so high. He did feel the cold though in his later years and kept the house rather warm but still...

Scot_39

EssexHebridean said:

Scot_39 said:

Historically vanilla E7 if anything probably a little less common in Scotland.
The fixed 7 hrs just not enough in many cases.
The SP white meter was 8.5 hrs for instance.
Think IIRC SP had - well last supplier breakdown early this year data late last - the most oustanding complex rts metering customers remaining in use.
Schemes like THTC in North by SSE (Ovo iirc now) gave upto 12 hours irc, SP - tariffs some plain seasonal others iirc with Weathercall in name even more dynamic as  forecasts were used to adapt timings for comfort for ex - nsh style heating only circuits - in South.

This was the exact reason why I said “E7 type tariffs” 

Sorry @Esse@EssexHebridean