APCOA appeal - refusing to treat hirer as keeper

Dayman101

Hi all

I received a Penalty Notice from APCOA for incorrect use of an EV bay (did try to pay but the webpage didn't process payment so my car wasn't charging and I came back to a ticket).

I sent the first appeal on APCOA's website, I lease my car so sent the leased vehicle template response (slightly amended version of this one here: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5703794) and received the following response via email from APCOA:

We can only consider an appeal from either the registered keeper of the vehicle or the driver of the vehicle when the alleged contravention occurred. From the correspondence we have received it appears that you are neither the registered keeper or the driver. Therefore, we are unable to process your appeal without first receiving signed authorisation from either the driver
or the registered keeper at the time of the alleged contravention.
How to provide written consent:
If the driver or registered keeper would like you to deal with this matter on their behalf, please ask them to send their written
consent to us, ensuring that it shows:
· Their full name and address.
· Their signature.
· The date they signed the consent.
· Our reference numbers.
· The registration number of the vehicle concerned.
· Your full name and address and contact details.
· A brief description of the issue you want us to consider.
Alternatively, if you were the driver of the vehicle that incurred the parking charge, please confirm this within 14 days of the date of this letter. Once we have this confirmation, we will be able to update our records and process your appeal.

Please send the correct information with full name, address and PN number within 14 days of the date of this letter to APCOA PARKING DINGWALL, PO BOX 5767, DINGWALL, IV15 0AX.

I would have thought that my initial response, specifically "I am the vehicle's hirer and keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definitions under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA)" would be sufficient to demonstrate that I am, for the purposes of this appeal, to be treated as registered keeper. I would prefer not to go to my leasing company but not sure what else they're after here?

I assume I am not to confirm I am the driver.

No other option given than to post the response (the mailbox the response was sent from is not monitored) so also assume I have no choice but to send via post here.

Finally, they've said they'll put the case on hold, does this impact the standard 6 month window for the Penalty Notice to lapse?

I haven't seen any similar correspondence received on the other threads so any help would be greatly appreciated!

Umkomaas

Can you confirm whether this is a Penalty Charge or Parking Charge Notice?  

What was the location of the parking event?

Did the lease company formally transfer liability to you as the hirer by completing APCOA paperwork, or did they simply copy the Notice to Keeper to you, asking you to 'deal with it'?

Or, .... did you respond directly to APCOA having found a ticket on your windscreen, with the lease company blissfully unaware of anything in this matter?

KeithP

You say you received a Penalty notice.
How did you receive that? Affixed to the windscreen perhaps?
If is was sent by post then where did they get your name and address from?
Was this a railway station car park?
Who is the Registered Keeper of the vehicle? You or the leasing company?

Gr1pr

Presumably this was at a train station. ?

POFA 2012 schedule 4 doesn't apply at train stations, so no keeper liability 

I assume that you tried to appeal a windscreen PCN issued to the driver, but did not reveal who was driving. ?

In which case the registered keeper has had no involvement. ?

Dayman101

Thanks all for replies:

1) This parking event was at a railway station car park (Three Bridges station). The precise wording on the ticket was Penalty Notice which I understand is the former i.e. Penalty Charge.
2) Yes the latter, there was a notice on my windscreen - no correspondence sent to leasing company from APCOA that I am aware of. Appealed directly online with the intention of having NTK sent to me rather than leasing company (based on my reading of newbies thread this was the best course of action).

Umkomaas said:

Can you confirm whether this is a Penalty Charge or Parking Charge Notice?  

What was the location of the parking event?

Did the lease company formally transfer liability to you as the hirer by completing APCOA paperwork, or did they simply copy the Notice to Keeper to you, asking you to 'deal with it'?

Or, .... did you respond directly to APCOA having found a ticket on your windscreen, with the lease company blissfully unaware of anything in this matter?

Gr1pr

You cannot receive an NtK, that document goes to the leasing company or hire company, they are the RK , so APCOA are correct in refusing the appeal from a different person who is not the RK and is NOT revealing who was driving 

Contact the lease company or hire company ( Registered Keeper. ) , tell them to not pay the invoice when it arrives and to reply with the name and address of the Hirer ( or Lessee. )

That way you will receive an NtH in the post with your details on it, as hirer 

You tried to appeal a Penalty Notice to Driver, a PN , not a PCN, without telling them who was Driving, the clues are in the D words

Ps, the link you provided was for a Parking Charge Notice PCN issued by CEL on relevant land as defined under POFA 2012, not a PN on land where bylaws are in force, so totally different 

Umkomaas

You took the right action in hooking this away from your lease company, who might have just paid the penalty, charged you for it, then added a tasty admin charge for you to pay as well.

You need to string this out to the 6 months point. Try a POPLA appeal once you have a POPLA verification code from APCOA. 

Look at the POPLA Decisions Announcement (near the top of the forum thread index), where today there is a report of a success in an APCOA penalty charge case, where the contract with the landowner only provided for the issuing of parking charge notices, not penalty notices. POPLA upheld the appeal.  Use some of that as your argument to POPLA. 

Dayman101

Umkomaas said:

You took the right action in hooking this away from your lease company, who might have just paid the penalty, charged you for it, then added a tasty admin charge for you to pay as well.

You need to string this out to the 6 months point. Try a POPLA appeal once you have a POPLA verification code from APCOA. 

Look at the POPLA Decisions Announcement (near the top of the forum thread index), where today there is a report of a success in an APCOA penalty charge case, where the contract with the landowner only provided for the issuing of parking charge notices, not penalty notices. POPLA upheld the appeal.  Use some of that as your argument to POPLA. 

Thanks - that makes sense. Yes I plan to drag this one out to 6 months - my thinking now is to ask the leasing company to provide the consent as requested by APCOA, or otherwise get them to respond to NTK once issued requesting a NTH sent to me. Either way sounds like best bet is reaching out to leasing company and get to the outcome where a notice is issued to me from which I can get a POPLA code.

Umkomaas

I wouldn't involve the lease company. You tell APCOA that you are the day to day keeper - hirer has no 'legs' in the context of a penalty charge - either they accept the appeal and cancel, or issue a POPLA verification code, otherwise you will make a formal complaint to the DVLA and the BPA. 

Coupon-mad

I'd appeal as admitted driver. Do that now.

Then at POPLA stage, win by using the point posted today in POPLA decisions.

You can kill this now and don't have to let it anywhere near your lease firm.

Gr1pr

I would suggest that you read appendix G in the BPA CoP version 9, especially when it's a Penalty Notice under bylaws

Page 48 3.4

Parking operators can pursue the owner of a vehicle for breach of Byelaws by affixing a penalty to the windscreen of a vehicle for the attention of the vehicle owner.

They may also seek keeper information from the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Authority (DVLA) in order to send a notice to owner through the post.

If the DVLA determines that the parking operator has reasonable cause to seek the information, they may provide it to the parking operator 

There is no way that APCOA are going to accept the hirer appeal and then reject it, or issue a Popla code, to the day to day keeper until after the RK does their part 

The 6 months deadline times out by counting from the windscreen PN date , so at the moment no postal Notice to Owner  ( NTO. ) has been issued 

Ps, if this saga gets as far as a Popla appeal, study the following successful thread 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6541963/apcoa-penalty-notice-popla-appeal-stage-mistake#latest