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Divorce - is this a fair settlement?

Hi all, i'm a newbie at this, and guess what... divorce too.  Hoping there's someone on here is more experienced at divorce than I am. 
I'm here, cap in hand, seeking opinions on whether my separation/divorce plan is a sound one, or if i'm missing something obvious, or if i'm being a tool.

Here's the background (i'll try and keep it very factual)
Married 10 years, 3 kids (9 and 2x 7s). I won't go into why but suffice to say it's all very amicable and no dramas or hurt.
We have a home with £300k equity, and a £300k mortgage. Two cars (one leased), and circa £330k in cash/investments.  The plan was to pay off the mortgage in two years, but now we're not.
I work full-time on £105k pa, my wife runs her own business p/t but earns very little and she will shortly start a new full-time job on £30k.
The original separation plan was that I would remove her from our deeds/mortgage, and she would buy her own home using the cash we have. (our martial home is a larger house and needs lots of maintenance, which she didn't want to take on, otherwise I would have been happy to move out).
But, my lender wouldn't allow me to remortgage to the value of current loan (even though they lent me all the money 2 years ago and i'm the only one paying all the bills). So, she's staying on the mortgage until the fixed rate term ends.  Next problem, she doesn't earn enough, at the point we did this, to get 'any' mortgage, so she's buying a £400k home and we're taking out a £100k mortgage for 2 years fixed, and the rest as deposit.
This means triple stamp duty but it's where we are.

That's the hard facts... here's the settlement status.  We've agreed 50/50 on finances, and 50/50 on custody.  We'll only live 5mins away from each other and i work from home 85% of the time so logistically it works.
As i'm the main earner (I have paid for literally everything for 10 years - every bill, every household expense, all of it - she saved up and paid for our family holidays), i'll pay her £613 a month, based on the CSA calculator. This isn't strictly spousal payment or child maintenance, but we needed some way of agreeing a figure.  I'll also pick up the large majority of the kids expenses, plus insurance etc.
To facilitate the house purchase she'll need more than 50% of our estate, plus she'll need to buy more furnishing than I will.  So my plan is these extra costs will be off-set against my pension.

In short... She'll get:
£330k in cash
Vehicle worth £18k
Monthly payment of £613
Most insurances paid
Kids costs covered by me (i'm a good dad and need the best for them)

I'll be left with equity in a property and a leased vehicle, that's it.  Neither of us will have any savings, so we start again.
Is this fair on both sides?

We're trying to do this without solicitors involved, but we will for the final consent order of course.  Our plan now is to document all of this and have it overseen by a solicitor, and then processed.  I think my last question is once we eventually get to divorce stage, could a judge look at all this and say that what we have 'agreed' is not right, and make a judgement on it to the contrary?
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Comments

  • Emmia
    Emmia Posts: 4,639 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Fourth Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper
    edited 10 October 2024 am31 11:43AM
    dryriser said:
    Hi all, i'm a newbie at this, and guess what... divorce too.  Hoping there's someone on here is more experienced at divorce than I am. 
    I'm here, cap in hand, seeking opinions on whether my separation/divorce plan is a sound one, or if i'm missing something obvious, or if i'm being a tool.

    Here's the background (i'll try and keep it very factual)
    Married 10 years, 3 kids (9 and 2x 7s). I won't go into why but suffice to say it's all very amicable and no dramas or hurt.
    We have a home with £300k equity, and a £300k mortgage. Two cars (one leased), and circa £330k in cash/investments.  The plan was to pay off the mortgage in two years, but now we're not.
    I work full-time on £105k pa, my wife runs her own business p/t but earns very little and she will shortly start a new full-time job on £30k.
    The original separation plan was that I would remove her from our deeds/mortgage, and she would buy her own home using the cash we have. (our martial home is a larger house and needs lots of maintenance, which she didn't want to take on, otherwise I would have been happy to move out).
    But, my lender wouldn't allow me to remortgage to the value of current loan (even though they lent me all the money 2 years ago and i'm the only one paying all the bills). So, she's staying on the mortgage until the fixed rate term ends.  Next problem, she doesn't earn enough, at the point we did this, to get 'any' mortgage, so she's buying a £400k home and we're taking out a £100k mortgage for 2 years fixed, and the rest as deposit.
    This means triple stamp duty but it's where we are.

    That's the hard facts... here's the settlement status.  We've agreed 50/50 on finances, and 50/50 on custody.  We'll only live 5mins away from each other and i work from home 85% of the time so logistically it works.
    As i'm the main earner (I have paid for literally everything for 10 years - every bill, every household expense, all of it - she saved up and paid for our family holidays), i'll pay her £613 a month, based on the CSA calculator. This isn't strictly spousal payment or child maintenance, but we needed some way of agreeing a figure.  I'll also pick up the large majority of the kids expenses, plus insurance etc.
    To facilitate the house purchase she'll need more than 50% of our estate, plus she'll need to buy more furnishing than I will.  So my plan is these extra costs will be off-set against my pension.

    In short... She'll get:
    £330k in cash
    Vehicle worth £18k
    Monthly payment of £613
    Most insurances paid
    Kids costs covered by me (i'm a good dad and need the best for them)

    I'll be left with equity in a property and a leased vehicle, that's it.  Neither of us will have any savings, so we start again.
    Is this fair on both sides?

    We're trying to do this without solicitors involved, but we will for the final consent order of course.  Our plan now is to document all of this and have it overseen by a solicitor, and then processed.  I think my last question is once we eventually get to divorce stage, could a judge look at all this and say that what we have 'agreed' is not right, and make a judgement on it to the contrary?
    What about pensions? It sounds like yours will be worth substantially more than hers, even with offsetting for furniture


  • Thanks. Not tackled this yet, and ideally i'd offset all of it, but I have nothing else to give, so we will sever them 50/50 for the duration of the marriage. 
  • Emmia
    Emmia Posts: 4,639 Forumite
    1,000 Posts Fourth Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper
    dryriser said:
    Thanks. Not tackled this yet, and ideally i'd offset all of it, but I have nothing else to give, so we will sever them 50/50 for the duration of the marriage. 
    Have you got a valuation of your respective pensions? 
  • FlorayG
    FlorayG Posts: 1,597 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    Can a judge say it's not fair if you've both agreed it? that doesn't seem fair in itself. If you are both happy surely the judge will just sign it off as is?
    (never been married so don't know, just curious)
  • DullGreyGuy
    DullGreyGuy Posts: 15,737 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Second Anniversary Name Dropper
    dryriser said:
    We're trying to do this without solicitors involved, but we will for the final consent order of course.  Our plan now is to document all of this and have it overseen by a solicitor, and then processed.  I think my last question is once we eventually get to divorce stage, could a judge look at all this and say that what we have 'agreed' is not right, and make a judgement on it to the contrary?
    The judge has an obligation to ensure agreements are fair but has notable discretion on what fair is. They will be particularly sensitive to dependent children or a vulnerable party who may say they agree to it but may not fully understand the repercussions or be pressured into saying that they agree to something they dont actually. 

    You each having your own solicitor would be an extra expense but are more likely to be approved by the judge with lighter consideration as the solicitor will have an obligation to explain matters to their client.

    Ultimately if you cannot convince the judge its fair the divorce can go ahead without a consent or clean break consent and do what you want but without a consent order one party could in the future change their mind on what is fair.
  • Exodi
    Exodi Posts: 3,435 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 11 October 2024 am31 7:38AM
    Erm, let's just say I'm not suprised she's amicable and keen to get this progressed... it seems pretty onesided against you.

    None of it really makes sense to me, but I guess I don't understand your relationship.

    You're agreeing to pay her £613 a month... for what exactly? How long do you plan on gifting her £613 a month? I expect when you eventually move on your new partner won't be terribly impressed with this generous gift... You have the children 50/50, there's no requirement to pay child support (which you accept this is not) so not clear on why you've used a CMS calculator.

    I think you're also facing the symptom of the age old problem of expectations after a divorce. It's not logical to expect the same living standards once you've broken up and need to pay to run two households (e.g. each in a 4 bed detached house) yet most couples exactly expect this. Are you intending to buy a second house while you're still not divorced for her to move into, your post kind of suggests that? Madness if the case.

    I don't know why there's any of this back story to be honest.

    (cash + vehicles + any other assets + pensions ) / 2

    You are looking after the children equally right? Spousal maintenance isn't really a thing in the UK so I'm not sure why all the extra freebies are being thrown in for her (e.g. cars, insurances, you meeting 100% of the childrens costs, random £613 monthly gift,etc).

    I feel like this is the situation where you feel really amicable now and are best friends or whatever (I'm sure most soon-to-be ex spouses would be on cloud 9 with their ex with that offer on the table) but a few months/years down the line when the dust has settled, you're used to being apart and she's moved on with someone else you'll be kicking yourself for your misguided generosity.
    FlorayG said:
    Can a judge say it's not fair if you've both agreed it? that doesn't seem fair in itself. If you are both happy surely the judge will just sign it off as is?
    (never been married so don't know, just curious)
    Imagine a situation where a guy guilt trips or convinces his ex that most of the assets should stay with him and offers her a pittance of the estate, convincing her that's all she's legally entitled to. Her, not knowing any better, agrees.

    Or a partner feels guilty about a break up and caught up in their emotion offers to reduce their share.

    You now have a situation where both parties agree, but a judge feels that the agreement is one-sided and declines the application.

    Reasons like this are why independent legal advise is preferred in these type of proceedings, to ensure they're fully aware of what they might be entitled to (but this can be a double-edged sword as oftentimes solicitors can over-represent what each party may be entitled to!).
    Know what you don't
  • Pile_o_stone
    Pile_o_stone Posts: 192 Forumite
    Fourth Anniversary 100 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 10 October 2024 pm31 1:40PM
    Thanks Exodi. I actually came back to say much of what you put in your post, especially the child support. If the OP is having the children 50% and can hold down a full-time job, then so can his ex-spouse. It's fair to split everything 50/50 (or to weight it differently if that suits both parties) at the point of divorce, but if you then contribute more afterwards,it's not a 50/50 split, it's 50/50 of the existing assets, plus continuing to be the breadwinner outside of the marriage. I have international travel and don't live close to my kids schools and pals, so I won't have 50/50 custody, so it's fair for me to contribute towards the kids. In the OPs case, there is no reason to pay for the kids twice over..

    While the OP has a good wage (similar to mine), he's not on premiership footballer money and needs to stop behaving as such. He also needs to realise that he's getting divorced. The days of you taking care of everyone in the family is over. Take care of kids, yourself and let your wife (a grown woman) take care of herself.
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  • Exodi
    Exodi Posts: 3,435 Forumite
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    edited 10 October 2024 pm31 2:01PM
    Thanks Exodi. I actually came back to say much of what you put in your post, especially the child support. If the OP is having the children 50% and can hold down a full-time job, then so can his ex-spouse. It's fair to split everything 50/50 (or to weight it differently if that suits both parties) at the point of divorce, but if you then contribute more afterwards,it's not a 50/50 split, it's 50/50 of the existing assets, plus continuing to be the breadwinner outside of the marriage. I have international travel and don't live close to my kids schools and pals, so I won't have 50/50 custody, so it's fair for me to contribute towards the kids. In the OPs case, there is no reason to pay for the kids twice over..

    While the OP has a good wage (similar to mine), he's not on premiership footballer money and needs to stop behaving as such. He also needs to realise that he's getting divorced. The days of you taking care of everyone in the family is over. Take care of kids, yourself and let your wife (a grown woman) take care of herself.
    Hi @Pile_o_stone, I see we commented effectively the same thing at the same time (well you beat me to the punch)!

    Agree with this also - as you say, a mental transition is needed. I can imagine such a show of generosity would soon turn to resentment within a few short months/years.

    I think you wrapped it up perfectly earlier: "That's the point of us divorcing - It's no longer my job to take care of her anymore, and vice-versa. "
    Know what you don't
  • Emmia said:
    dryriser said:
    Hi all, i'm a newbie at this, and guess what... divorce too.  Hoping there's someone on here is more experienced at divorce than I am. 
    I'm here, cap in hand, seeking opinions on whether my separation/divorce plan is a sound one, or if i'm missing something obvious, or if i'm being a tool.

    Here's the background (i'll try and keep it very factual)
    Married 10 years, 3 kids (9 and 2x 7s). I won't go into why but suffice to say it's all very amicable and no dramas or hurt.
    We have a home with £300k equity, and a £300k mortgage. Two cars (one leased), and circa £330k in cash/investments.  The plan was to pay off the mortgage in two years, but now we're not.
    I work full-time on £105k pa, my wife runs her own business p/t but earns very little and she will shortly start a new full-time job on £30k.
    The original separation plan was that I would remove her from our deeds/mortgage, and she would buy her own home using the cash we have. (our martial home is a larger house and needs lots of maintenance, which she didn't want to take on, otherwise I would have been happy to move out).
    But, my lender wouldn't allow me to remortgage to the value of current loan (even though they lent me all the money 2 years ago and i'm the only one paying all the bills). So, she's staying on the mortgage until the fixed rate term ends.  Next problem, she doesn't earn enough, at the point we did this, to get 'any' mortgage, so she's buying a £400k home and we're taking out a £100k mortgage for 2 years fixed, and the rest as deposit.
    This means triple stamp duty but it's where we are.

    That's the hard facts... here's the settlement status.  We've agreed 50/50 on finances, and 50/50 on custody.  We'll only live 5mins away from each other and i work from home 85% of the time so logistically it works.
    As i'm the main earner (I have paid for literally everything for 10 years - every bill, every household expense, all of it - she saved up and paid for our family holidays), i'll pay her £613 a month, based on the CSA calculator. This isn't strictly spousal payment or child maintenance, but we needed some way of agreeing a figure.  I'll also pick up the large majority of the kids expenses, plus insurance etc.
    To facilitate the house purchase she'll need more than 50% of our estate, plus she'll need to buy more furnishing than I will.  So my plan is these extra costs will be off-set against my pension.

    In short... She'll get:
    £330k in cash
    Vehicle worth £18k
    Monthly payment of £613
    Most insurances paid
    Kids costs covered by me (i'm a good dad and need the best for them)

    I'll be left with equity in a property and a leased vehicle, that's it.  Neither of us will have any savings, so we start again.
    Is this fair on both sides?

    We're trying to do this without solicitors involved, but we will for the final consent order of course.  Our plan now is to document all of this and have it overseen by a solicitor, and then processed.  I think my last question is once we eventually get to divorce stage, could a judge look at all this and say that what we have 'agreed' is not right, and make a judgement on it to the contrary?
    What about pensions? It sounds like yours will be worth substantially more than hers, even with offsetting for furniture


    Yes you're right, and begrudgingly I know she's entitled to half for the period we were married. I'd love to offset more but short of selling out house, there's no other assets to give.
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