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Divorce - is this a fair settlement?

dryriser
Posts: 7 Forumite

Hi all, i'm a newbie at this, and guess what... divorce too. Hoping there's someone on here is more experienced at divorce than I am.
I'm here, cap in hand, seeking opinions on whether my separation/divorce plan is a sound one, or if i'm missing something obvious, or if i'm being a tool.
Here's the background (i'll try and keep it very factual)
Married 10 years, 3 kids (9 and 2x 7s). I won't go into why but suffice to say it's all very amicable and no dramas or hurt.
We have a home with £300k equity, and a £300k mortgage. Two cars (one leased), and circa £330k in cash/investments. The plan was to pay off the mortgage in two years, but now we're not.
I work full-time on £105k pa, my wife runs her own business p/t but earns very little and she will shortly start a new full-time job on £30k.
The original separation plan was that I would remove her from our deeds/mortgage, and she would buy her own home using the cash we have. (our martial home is a larger house and needs lots of maintenance, which she didn't want to take on, otherwise I would have been happy to move out).
But, my lender wouldn't allow me to remortgage to the value of current loan (even though they lent me all the money 2 years ago and i'm the only one paying all the bills). So, she's staying on the mortgage until the fixed rate term ends. Next problem, she doesn't earn enough, at the point we did this, to get 'any' mortgage, so she's buying a £400k home and we're taking out a £100k mortgage for 2 years fixed, and the rest as deposit.
This means triple stamp duty but it's where we are.
That's the hard facts... here's the settlement status. We've agreed 50/50 on finances, and 50/50 on custody. We'll only live 5mins away from each other and i work from home 85% of the time so logistically it works.
As i'm the main earner (I have paid for literally everything for 10 years - every bill, every household expense, all of it - she saved up and paid for our family holidays), i'll pay her £613 a month, based on the CSA calculator. This isn't strictly spousal payment or child maintenance, but we needed some way of agreeing a figure. I'll also pick up the large majority of the kids expenses, plus insurance etc.
To facilitate the house purchase she'll need more than 50% of our estate, plus she'll need to buy more furnishing than I will. So my plan is these extra costs will be off-set against my pension.
In short... She'll get:
£330k in cash
Vehicle worth £18k
Monthly payment of £613
Most insurances paid
Kids costs covered by me (i'm a good dad and need the best for them)
I'll be left with equity in a property and a leased vehicle, that's it. Neither of us will have any savings, so we start again.
Is this fair on both sides?
We're trying to do this without solicitors involved, but we will for the final consent order of course. Our plan now is to document all of this and have it overseen by a solicitor, and then processed. I think my last question is once we eventually get to divorce stage, could a judge look at all this and say that what we have 'agreed' is not right, and make a judgement on it to the contrary?
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dryriser said:Hi all, i'm a newbie at this, and guess what... divorce too. Hoping there's someone on here is more experienced at divorce than I am.I'm here, cap in hand, seeking opinions on whether my separation/divorce plan is a sound one, or if i'm missing something obvious, or if i'm being a tool.Here's the background (i'll try and keep it very factual)Married 10 years, 3 kids (9 and 2x 7s). I won't go into why but suffice to say it's all very amicable and no dramas or hurt.We have a home with £300k equity, and a £300k mortgage. Two cars (one leased), and circa £330k in cash/investments. The plan was to pay off the mortgage in two years, but now we're not.I work full-time on £105k pa, my wife runs her own business p/t but earns very little and she will shortly start a new full-time job on £30k.The original separation plan was that I would remove her from our deeds/mortgage, and she would buy her own home using the cash we have. (our martial home is a larger house and needs lots of maintenance, which she didn't want to take on, otherwise I would have been happy to move out).But, my lender wouldn't allow me to remortgage to the value of current loan (even though they lent me all the money 2 years ago and i'm the only one paying all the bills). So, she's staying on the mortgage until the fixed rate term ends. Next problem, she doesn't earn enough, at the point we did this, to get 'any' mortgage, so she's buying a £400k home and we're taking out a £100k mortgage for 2 years fixed, and the rest as deposit.This means triple stamp duty but it's where we are.That's the hard facts... here's the settlement status. We've agreed 50/50 on finances, and 50/50 on custody. We'll only live 5mins away from each other and i work from home 85% of the time so logistically it works.As i'm the main earner (I have paid for literally everything for 10 years - every bill, every household expense, all of it - she saved up and paid for our family holidays), i'll pay her £613 a month, based on the CSA calculator. This isn't strictly spousal payment or child maintenance, but we needed some way of agreeing a figure. I'll also pick up the large majority of the kids expenses, plus insurance etc.To facilitate the house purchase she'll need more than 50% of our estate, plus she'll need to buy more furnishing than I will. So my plan is these extra costs will be off-set against my pension.In short... She'll get:£330k in cashVehicle worth £18kMonthly payment of £613Most insurances paidKids costs covered by me (i'm a good dad and need the best for them)I'll be left with equity in a property and a leased vehicle, that's it. Neither of us will have any savings, so we start again.Is this fair on both sides?We're trying to do this without solicitors involved, but we will for the final consent order of course. Our plan now is to document all of this and have it overseen by a solicitor, and then processed. I think my last question is once we eventually get to divorce stage, could a judge look at all this and say that what we have 'agreed' is not right, and make a judgement on it to the contrary?
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Thanks. Not tackled this yet, and ideally i'd offset all of it, but I have nothing else to give, so we will sever them 50/50 for the duration of the marriage.0
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Can a judge say it's not fair if you've both agreed it? that doesn't seem fair in itself. If you are both happy surely the judge will just sign it off as is?
(never been married so don't know, just curious)1 -
dryriser said:
We're trying to do this without solicitors involved, but we will for the final consent order of course. Our plan now is to document all of this and have it overseen by a solicitor, and then processed. I think my last question is once we eventually get to divorce stage, could a judge look at all this and say that what we have 'agreed' is not right, and make a judgement on it to the contrary?
You each having your own solicitor would be an extra expense but are more likely to be approved by the judge with lighter consideration as the solicitor will have an obligation to explain matters to their client.
Ultimately if you cannot convince the judge its fair the divorce can go ahead without a consent or clean break consent and do what you want but without a consent order one party could in the future change their mind on what is fair.1 -
Wow this is VERY similar to my current circumstances. We are further along in the process and so I will be able to provide some clarity.
We had a similar issue where my wife earned less than me and wouldn't be able to afford a mortgage on her own, so we agreed to split the house equity 60%/40% in her favour and the pensions 60%/40% in my favour. Basically she would be getting (for example) £300k in mortgage equity and I would be getting £300k in Pension value. These figures would obviously fluctuate with the eventual vale of the house sale - so if we had to drop the house price then her 60% equity would drop, so my pension equity would also drop accordingly. So for example, if her 60% house equity dropped to £280k, then my pension equity would also drop to £280k
However, when we approached a solicitor to draw up the Consent Order they said having these two different assets connected would not be allowed as the house had not yet been sold. We had to have a fixed percentage of the pension and a set percentage of the house equity, and not have them dependent on each other. We therefore had to agree on me having the pension 60% - £300k pension equity (as that was immediately available), and she would get 60% of the house equity. The issue is that she may get less than £300k. It was then for us to decide if I would take less but outside of the court agreement.
The one thing in your agreement that raised a red flag, was "we're taking out a £100k mortgage". Is that in your name? The whole point of getting a Consent Order is essentially to have a complete and final split of your finances, except for child support (which should end once the kids are adults). If you're not having that and will continue to be the breadwinner for the family even though you are divorced then there is no point to having a formal consent order via the courts, you can just decide to do it.
However, I would caution you. While you want to make sure your kids have a safe and secure home and so you are being incredibly generous, will you still feel so generous when your wife gets another partner? Would you feel happy to continue to pay a mortgage on a property that she and another man are living in (especially after the kids have grown up and left home)?
In my situation, my wife will buy a small terrace house outright, with no mortgage. Once the settlement is done, then the only payment she will receive from me is for the kids. When the kids have moved out as adults, that payment will stop. SHe will be financially independent of me (apart from child support) from day 1 of the divorce (once we have sold the house) and she will be financially independent of me completely once the kids are adults. That's the point of us divorcing - It's no longer my job to take care of her anymore, and vice-versa.5 -
Erm, let's just say I'm not suprised she's amicable and keen to get this progressed... it seems pretty onesided against you.
None of it really makes sense to me, but I guess I don't understand your relationship.
You're agreeing to pay her £613 a month... for what exactly? How long do you plan on gifting her £613 a month? I expect when you eventually move on your new partner won't be terribly impressed with this generous gift... You have the children 50/50, there's no requirement to pay child support (which you accept this is not) so not clear on why you've used a CMS calculator.
I think you're also facing the symptom of the age old problem of expectations after a divorce. It's not logical to expect the same living standards once you've broken up and need to pay to run two households (e.g. each in a 4 bed detached house) yet most couples exactly expect this. Are you intending to buy a second house while you're still not divorced for her to move into, your post kind of suggests that? Madness if the case.
I don't know why there's any of this back story to be honest.
(cash + vehicles + any other assets + pensions ) / 2
You are looking after the children equally right? Spousal maintenance isn't really a thing in the UK so I'm not sure why all the extra freebies are being thrown in for her (e.g. cars, insurances, you meeting 100% of the childrens costs, random £613 monthly gift,etc).
I feel like this is the situation where you feel really amicable now and are best friends or whatever (I'm sure most soon-to-be ex spouses would be on cloud 9 with their ex with that offer on the table) but a few months/years down the line when the dust has settled, you're used to being apart and she's moved on with someone else you'll be kicking yourself for your misguided generosity.
Imagine a situation where a guy guilt trips or convinces his ex that most of the assets should stay with him and offers her a pittance of the estate, convincing her that's all she's legally entitled to. Her, not knowing any better, agrees.FlorayG said:Can a judge say it's not fair if you've both agreed it? that doesn't seem fair in itself. If you are both happy surely the judge will just sign it off as is?
(never been married so don't know, just curious)
Or a partner feels guilty about a break up and caught up in their emotion offers to reduce their share.
You now have a situation where both parties agree, but a judge feels that the agreement is one-sided and declines the application.
Reasons like this are why independent legal advise is preferred in these type of proceedings, to ensure they're fully aware of what they might be entitled to (but this can be a double-edged sword as oftentimes solicitors can over-represent what each party may be entitled to!).Know what you don't1 -
Thanks Exodi. I actually came back to say much of what you put in your post, especially the child support. If the OP is having the children 50% and can hold down a full-time job, then so can his ex-spouse. It's fair to split everything 50/50 (or to weight it differently if that suits both parties) at the point of divorce, but if you then contribute more afterwards,it's not a 50/50 split, it's 50/50 of the existing assets, plus continuing to be the breadwinner outside of the marriage. I have international travel and don't live close to my kids schools and pals, so I won't have 50/50 custody, so it's fair for me to contribute towards the kids. In the OPs case, there is no reason to pay for the kids twice over..
While the OP has a good wage (similar to mine), he's not on premiership footballer money and needs to stop behaving as such. He also needs to realise that he's getting divorced. The days of you taking care of everyone in the family is over. Take care of kids, yourself and let your wife (a grown woman) take care of herself.5.18 kWp PV systems (3.68 E/W & 1.5 E).
Solar iBoost+ to two immersion heaters on 350L thermal store.
100% composted food waste
Mini orchard planted and vegetable allotment created.1 -
Pile_o_stone said:Thanks Exodi. I actually came back to say much of what you put in your post, especially the child support. If the OP is having the children 50% and can hold down a full-time job, then so can his ex-spouse. It's fair to split everything 50/50 (or to weight it differently if that suits both parties) at the point of divorce, but if you then contribute more afterwards,it's not a 50/50 split, it's 50/50 of the existing assets, plus continuing to be the breadwinner outside of the marriage. I have international travel and don't live close to my kids schools and pals, so I won't have 50/50 custody, so it's fair for me to contribute towards the kids. In the OPs case, there is no reason to pay for the kids twice over..
While the OP has a good wage (similar to mine), he's not on premiership footballer money and needs to stop behaving as such. He also needs to realise that he's getting divorced. The days of you taking care of everyone in the family is over. Take care of kids, yourself and let your wife (a grown woman) take care of herself.
Agree with this also - as you say, a mental transition is needed. I can imagine such a show of generosity would soon turn to resentment within a few short months/years.
I think you wrapped it up perfectly earlier: "That's the point of us divorcing - It's no longer my job to take care of her anymore, and vice-versa. "Know what you don't0 -
Emmia said:dryriser said:Hi all, i'm a newbie at this, and guess what... divorce too. Hoping there's someone on here is more experienced at divorce than I am.I'm here, cap in hand, seeking opinions on whether my separation/divorce plan is a sound one, or if i'm missing something obvious, or if i'm being a tool.Here's the background (i'll try and keep it very factual)Married 10 years, 3 kids (9 and 2x 7s). I won't go into why but suffice to say it's all very amicable and no dramas or hurt.We have a home with £300k equity, and a £300k mortgage. Two cars (one leased), and circa £330k in cash/investments. The plan was to pay off the mortgage in two years, but now we're not.I work full-time on £105k pa, my wife runs her own business p/t but earns very little and she will shortly start a new full-time job on £30k.The original separation plan was that I would remove her from our deeds/mortgage, and she would buy her own home using the cash we have. (our martial home is a larger house and needs lots of maintenance, which she didn't want to take on, otherwise I would have been happy to move out).But, my lender wouldn't allow me to remortgage to the value of current loan (even though they lent me all the money 2 years ago and i'm the only one paying all the bills). So, she's staying on the mortgage until the fixed rate term ends. Next problem, she doesn't earn enough, at the point we did this, to get 'any' mortgage, so she's buying a £400k home and we're taking out a £100k mortgage for 2 years fixed, and the rest as deposit.This means triple stamp duty but it's where we are.That's the hard facts... here's the settlement status. We've agreed 50/50 on finances, and 50/50 on custody. We'll only live 5mins away from each other and i work from home 85% of the time so logistically it works.As i'm the main earner (I have paid for literally everything for 10 years - every bill, every household expense, all of it - she saved up and paid for our family holidays), i'll pay her £613 a month, based on the CSA calculator. This isn't strictly spousal payment or child maintenance, but we needed some way of agreeing a figure. I'll also pick up the large majority of the kids expenses, plus insurance etc.To facilitate the house purchase she'll need more than 50% of our estate, plus she'll need to buy more furnishing than I will. So my plan is these extra costs will be off-set against my pension.In short... She'll get:£330k in cashVehicle worth £18kMonthly payment of £613Most insurances paidKids costs covered by me (i'm a good dad and need the best for them)I'll be left with equity in a property and a leased vehicle, that's it. Neither of us will have any savings, so we start again.Is this fair on both sides?We're trying to do this without solicitors involved, but we will for the final consent order of course. Our plan now is to document all of this and have it overseen by a solicitor, and then processed. I think my last question is once we eventually get to divorce stage, could a judge look at all this and say that what we have 'agreed' is not right, and make a judgement on it to the contrary?0
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