Where does an old lady start with writing a will (THAT CAN BE STORED ELSEWHERE?)

FrankFalcon

Hi all

Apologies for the long post, but it is really necessary.  I just want to say at the start that I am not asking for legal advice or specific advice on what to do etc.  We just want to know who to turn to first.  We fully intend to appoint a professional advisor but don't know where to begin. One may be forgiven for thinking that the following 'story' is from a film script, but I assure you it's not.  I have changed names to protect the individuals involved.

My cousin (who is not very literate) has asked me to assist him.  The story goes.. My cousins Mother is a 90 year old lady.  She has 4 children Mr Bloggs 1, Mr Bloggs 2, Mr Bloggs 3, Mrs Bloggs (that makes up 3 brothers and a sister).  The old lady (mother of these 4) received some medical news earlier this year that means she is unlikely to last a couple of years (at best).  She fully understands this and accepts the diagnosis but is very upset and worried about her will (or lack of it).  The old lady has never had a will and realises she needs to write one soon.  However, there are complications... All 3 brother Bloggs' and daughter Bloggs live far away from the old lady Mother.  Of late, as her health diminishes, out of nowhere daughter Bloggs has come on the scene and is never away...offering help and support, despite never being around previously.  You all know where this is going...Mother is still sane enough to 'suspect' that daughter Bloggs has ulterior motives for helping her and being around a lot during these final months of her life.  When I tell you that daughter Bloggs has done exactly this before with a family member of her Ex husband you should not be surprised.  I know for myself the daughter Bloggs has also been implicated in a charity 'scandal' regarding misuse of funds.  Old lady mother is fully aware of this and fully compus Mentus at the moment.  So...Fast forward to last weekend...Mr Bloggs 3 brother visited old lady Mum and Mother was in tears.  She said she 'Knew for certain that somebody had been tampering with her paperwork when she was in hospital recently for a week'.  She also says that during that time she was in hospital, daughter Bloggs had taken her house keys (without her blessing) to go to Mums house to collect some clean clothes etc...without being asked.  So...Mum says to Mr Bloggs 3 "I don't have a will and I know if I write one and leave that will here at home it will go missing or even worse, be altered".  She then went on "Years ago, a person simply wrote a will and give it to their bank manager for safe keeping, but this is not possible now".  Mum also went on "My will is not complicated.  It is simply this...I have four children and I want everything I own (money, house etc) divided 4 ways equally.  However, I fear that when I die all of a sudden a new will will appear".  I did say this sounded like a film script didn't I? 

So, here's what I need help with...I need to give my cousin (and his Mum) answers on the following:

1. Is it possible an independent person (such as a solictor) could visit the old lady at home and get her to write her will in his/her presence?

2. If the above is possible the old lady insists the will is kept elsewhere from her home (so it cannot be 'tampered' with.  Could it be kept safely with the solicitor?

3. Who would he contact to get the ball rolling?

4. Can Mr Bloggs 3 witness the will being signed, even though he will be one of the equal benefactors?

Thanks for listening.  This is very stressful for the family.

FlorayG

Absolutely a solicitor can visit; the solicitor will then keep the ORIGINAL will and give the lady a COPY. The copy is just for people to know what to do immediately when she dies (start to arrange funeral she wants, for example) and which solicitor to contact. The solicitor will then contact the named executors to carry out the terms of the will.
 Do NOT let witness be someone who will benefit from the will. Use neighbours, health visitors, ask the solicitor to bring a clerk.
Honestly it's not as complex as you are worrying about; the solicitor will keep the will safe
Also note that nobody but the executors has a right to SEE the will even after death; they are only legally allowed to see the parts that refer directly to them. It's not their business what the old lady does with the rest. She may want to write a different will once she knows this...

Newly_retired

I agree with the above, so
1. Yes, a solicitor. If she is able to go to him/her, she might even get it done during Free Wills month. See MArtin Lewis' article.
2. Yes, the solicitor will keep the original. and provide a copy. Maybe if the lady does not trust her daughter, she could give her copy to her trusted son, or a trusted friend?
3. A local STEP solicitor ( they specialise in Wills and Probate ), NOT a Will Writer.
4. No.  A beneficiary cannot sign as a witness. 
Who will be the executor ( s)? An executor can be a beneficiary, but not a witness. A neighbour is fine. They don't need to read the will, just be there when she signs it. If she signs it at the solicitor's office, he and his secretray can be the witnesses.
The lady might want to write a letter of wishes eg about her funeral so the family can find it quickly but it is not legally binding.

lr1277

My parents had their wills re-done during covid, when my dad had mobility issues so couldn't get into the office.

The solicitor made 2 visits to my parents' house.

1st visit to discuss the details of what was needed in the will. It was passed around by email, till the final text was agreed.

Then for the signing, the solicitor and a member of the solicitor's staff came to the house to witness the signing.

Yes this cost a bit more than doing an off the shelf will or going into the solicitor's office, but for my parents it was worth it.

The solicitor's firm is currently storing the original will and I think my mum has copies of the original wills.

Edited to add: I was present at the 1st consultation where we discussed what my parents wanted. The solicitor suggested something about setting up trusts to protect assets. As I had already researched this, my parents and I told the solicitor this was not necessary and to keep the will simple. I am just saying, the solicitor may try and lead you down a path that is not warranted. The person setting up the will has to know what they want unless they are persuaded by other arguments.

Emmia

You can also have the will stored by the government in a central repository run by HMCTS. 

I would absolutely use a solicitor for the writing of the will, even if they don't store it

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/store-a-will-with-the-probate-service/how-to-store-a-will-with-the-probate-service

lr1277

If you think that suddenly another will might appear, I wonder if it would worth writing something like a letter of expression? In other cases, this is where the testator (person who the will is about) writes down their reasons for not giving person X any part of their assets/legacy.

This letter might say this is the only will I have written. Any other will I write will be done by this same solicitor so they will always have the latest version of my will.

Perhaps something to discuss with the solicitor?

Edited to add: I suspect if there are 2 competing wills, it will go to court and the court will make a decision on which will is the correct one. In the meantime, this uses up the assets of the testator in order to pay the lawyers for each side. But this is pure guesswork on my part.

FlorayG

lr1277 said:

Edited to add: I suspect if there are 2 competing wills, it will go to court and the court will make a decision on which will is the correct one. In the meantime, this uses up the assets of the testator in order to pay the lawyers for each side. But this is pure guesswork on my part.

There won't be two competing wills. There will be one will, the original with the solicitor and a photocopy with the lady. Anyone could write whatever they want on the photocopy, it's not a legal will; only the original is legal

lr1277

I thought there might be 2 competing wills if mother Bloggs wrote one will then daughter Bloggs produced another will. As long as it was dated after Mother Bloggs' will, correctly written and all other legal niceties, then there was the possibility of 2 competing wills. My guess is the latest will takes precedence unless a court rules otherwise. The OP has not written about daughter Bloggs in a favourable way.

Edited to add: Mother Bloggs will have to guess/determine how far daughter Bloggs might go and then take appropriate steps.

RAS

Witnesses for wills have to be independent, not beneficiaries.

Definitely use the Probate Registry option. Takes a little longer to retrieve the will but secure and they don't go bust like solicitor's firms.

Of rather more importance, who currently is the old lady's attorney/attornies? Plainly she wants to make sure that the daughter isn't one. And she needs to do LPAs now if they are not in place as it takes months to register.

The old lady needs to talk to social services at the hospital or locally and tell them about the daughter's previous form. And make sure the hospital and social services know that whilst she's not going to disinherit the daughter, this woman must never be allowed access to her home or finances. It's essential that the hospital know never to let daughter have the keys.

On a practical note, get the locks changed anyway, as it only takes minutes to get a duplicate cut. Sons could also get a ring doorbell installed and possibly security camera downstairs?

FabFifty

Old Mother Bloggs has stated "I have four children and I want everything I own (money, house etc) divided 4 ways equally". So once the Will is drawn up why not just let each of the four siblings have a copy? So everyone knows what's what. This is what we did with my father's will. Took a photo of it and shared that with my siblings. Nice & simple, nothing hidden and everyone knew exactly what was going on so no whispered conversations or unreasonable expectations.

FrankFalcon

To everybody who commented, thank you. You have all helped immensely. We now have a lovely lady solicitor visiting the old lady next week. The solicitor will chat to her in private. The cost is likely to be £150 and could rise to £250 depending on the complexity. With this in mind, I thank you all for your input and time spent. As this matter is now sorted I would be grateful if a mod would now close this thread. Thank you all. 

THIS THREAD IS NOW RESOLVED. PLEASE CLOSE IT.