British Gas raising boiler insurance cost again. Options?

FreeBear

MysteryMe said: "They say it's on the "limited parts list".

Looks like the parts that are likely to fail are still available. Gas valve, PCB, fan, most gaskets.. Even the main heat exchanger - Just don't look at the prices though.

ThisIsWeird

I replaced the fan in il's previous house, for their non-condensing GlowWorm - like your Ideal, a basic and little-to-go-wrong model.
NOS fans were still available, but silly money. I instead bought a pro-refurb'd part from t'bay. An established co, and the part was immaculate - even resprayed to look like new. It was very reasonable - around £50 or so, and you send them your old one in return.
The bit that fails in the fan are the bearings, which were obviously part of the refurb. Operationally, it was as good as new, and still working silently when they moved out years later.
The issue may be getting a GS to fit such refurbished parts, and obviously they won't 'guarantee' the job - if it fails, they'll charge labour again to replace it.

1404

FreeBear said:

MysteryMe said: "They say it's on the "limited parts list".

Looks like the parts that are likely to fail are still available. Gas valve, PCB, fan, most gaskets.. Even the main heat exchanger - Just don't look at the prices though.

What kind of prices are we talking for new parts for an old Ideal boiler like mine? 

As said above, there is the option (hopefully) of getting refurbished parts. 

1404

As and when it comes to replacing my boiler, any ideas how much it would cost?

I would probably seek to get quotes from the Rated People app.

Would it be a straight swap of the boiler (ie not touching the water tank, pipes, rads etc)?  I can see that neighbours who've had their boilers changed seem to have have their flue pipe on the outside moved slightly. It has been said to me that mine is too close to a rainwater downpipe.

FreeBear

1404 said:

FreeBear said:

MysteryMe said: "They say it's on the "limited parts list".

Looks like the parts that are likely to fail are still available. Gas valve, PCB, fan, most gaskets.. Even the main heat exchanger - Just don't look at the prices though.

What kind of prices are we talking for new parts for an old Ideal boiler like mine? 

As said above, there is the option (hopefully) of getting refurbished parts. 

Using https://www.dhsspares.co.uk/category/gas-boiler-uk/brand/ideal-domestic/appliance/ideal-classic-ff-350-ide226 as a guide.

• Fan £180 (minus impeller.
• Gas valve £107
• PCB £140
• Pressure switch £110

1404 said:

As and when it comes to replacing my boiler, any ideas how much it would cost?

I would probably seek to get quotes from the Rated People app.

Would it be a straight swap of the boiler (ie not touching the water tank, pipes, rads etc)?  I can see that neighbours who've had their boilers changed seem to have have their flue pipe on the outside moved slightly. It has been said to me that mine is too close to a rainwater downpipe.

Assuming no changes to pipework & location, I've seen basic boiler swaps advertised for as little as £600 plus the cost of a boiler. But you will need the gas pipe upgraded to 22mm (possibly 28mm if a long run). TRVs should be fitted to all radiators (usually one is left to act as a bypass), and you'll want a modern programmable thermostat. Budget £3000-4000..

It is worth fitting new, larger radiators all round. The old ones will probably have been specified using 80°C as the flow temperature. Bigger radiators means you can run at a lower flow temperature which means much better efficiency and reliability. At 80°C, you'll be hard pushed to get 75-80% efficiency, drop to 60°C, you'll get ~92%, and at 50°C, you could hit 98%. Potential there to save 15-20% on gas.

But.... If you were to change your boiler now (before April 2028), I would urge you to consider a heat pump. With a £7500 grant currently available, the likes of Octopus are doing some very competitive quotes. They quoted me £2700 (subject to survey) earlier in the year - This would have included new radiators all round, a hot water cylinder, plus a limited amount of plumbing. I'd spent £2500 on a new gas boiler the previous year, and put in new radiators & replumbed the system on top (another £300-500 spent).

Correctly specified and set up, a heat pump would work out cheaper to run than gas (on the right tariff). And contrary to some, you don't need a super insulated house to have a heat pump. Although, good levels of insulation is desirable in any property.

1404

FreeBear said:

1404 said:

FreeBear said:

MysteryMe said: "They say it's on the "limited parts list".

Looks like the parts that are likely to fail are still available. Gas valve, PCB, fan, most gaskets.. Even the main heat exchanger - Just don't look at the prices though.

What kind of prices are we talking for new parts for an old Ideal boiler like mine? 

As said above, there is the option (hopefully) of getting refurbished parts. 

Using https://www.dhsspares.co.uk/category/gas-boiler-uk/brand/ideal-domestic/appliance/ideal-classic-ff-350-ide226 as a guide.

• Fan £180 (minus impeller.
• Gas valve £107
• PCB £140
• Pressure switch £110

1404 said:

As and when it comes to replacing my boiler, any ideas how much it would cost?

I would probably seek to get quotes from the Rated People app.

Would it be a straight swap of the boiler (ie not touching the water tank, pipes, rads etc)?  I can see that neighbours who've had their boilers changed seem to have have their flue pipe on the outside moved slightly. It has been said to me that mine is too close to a rainwater downpipe.

Assuming no changes to pipework & location, I've seen basic boiler swaps advertised for as little as £600 plus the cost of a boiler. But you will need the gas pipe upgraded to 22mm (possibly 28mm if a long run). TRVs should be fitted to all radiators (usually one is left to act as a bypass), and you'll want a modern programmable thermostat. Budget £3000-4000..

It is worth fitting new, larger radiators all round. The old ones will probably have been specified using 80°C as the flow temperature. Bigger radiators means you can run at a lower flow temperature which means much better efficiency and reliability. At 80°C, you'll be hard pushed to get 75-80% efficiency, drop to 60°C, you'll get ~92%, and at 50°C, you could hit 98%. Potential there to save 15-20% on gas.

But.... If you were to change your boiler now (before April 2028), I would urge you to consider a heat pump. With a £7500 grant currently available, the likes of Octopus are doing some very competitive quotes. They quoted me £2700 (subject to survey) earlier in the year - This would have included new radiators all round, a hot water cylinder, plus a limited amount of plumbing. I'd spent £2500 on a new gas boiler the previous year, and put in new radiators & replumbed the system on top (another £300-500 spent).

Correctly specified and set up, a heat pump would work out cheaper to run than gas (on the right tariff). And contrary to some, you don't need a super insulated house to have a heat pump. Although, good levels of insulation is desirable in any property.

Thank you for that. That's much appreciated!

Regarding the spare parts for the existing Ideal boiler I have:
This is certainly the cheapest option then. And especially as eBay have those parts for significantly less (although as stated above some of them are refurbished and I would need a GasSafe engineer who is willing to work with refurbished parts. Not sure if that's an issue?)

Regarding the new gas boiler:
£3k-£4k is a big outlay.... But I would nonetheless go with the suggestions of the engineer regarding bigger pipe and radiators. I would see what the various quotes suggest on that. 

Regarding the heat pump:
For £2700 (if that's what the total cost ended up being in the region of, I would be very interested. It would be cheaper than a new gas boiler. I think my neighbour has one. They have a unit mounted on the side of their house up high (we live in townhouses). So that too is an option I will be exploring for when the time comes to make a real decision.

But for now it seems that I should stick with my working old Ideal boiler and see how it goes. And when parts fail then try to source them from eBay (or buy new ones) and keep the Ideal going. Find a local GasSafe person and ditch British Gas HomeCare. Would you agree with that? 

1404

By the way, would my hot water tank be replaced if I got a new boiler? Or just the pipe, rads and boiler?

Kiran

You can leave an existing tank, but you'd probably find a new one much more efficient. You also have the choice of doing away with the hot water tank completely, although that carries with it both pros and cons

FreeBear

1404 said: Regarding the heat pump:
For £2700 (if that's what the total cost ended up being in the region of, I would be very interested. It would be cheaper than a new gas boiler. I think my neighbour has one. They have a unit mounted on the side of their house up high (we live in townhouses). So that too is an option I will be exploring for when the time comes to make a real decision.

But for now it seems that I should stick with my working old Ideal boiler and see how it goes. And when parts fail then try to source them from eBay (or buy new ones) and keep the Ideal going. Find a local GasSafe person and ditch British Gas HomeCare. Would you agree with that?

The £2700 was what Octopus quoted me. I have seen others getting prices much lower (around £1K) and a few over £4K. It all depends on the amount of work involved, and the number of radiators that need changing.

Certainly cultivate a local GS engineer - Get them to do an annual service (preferably early autumn) so that you are on their books. Then if you have a breakdown in the middle of winter, they are more likely to come out. Discuss the use of refurbished parts, but do bear in mind that you could be without heating for a week while waiting for parts ordered from ebay.

1404 said:

By the way, would my hot water tank be replaced if I got a new boiler? Or just the pipe, rads and boiler?

I suspect you are already running a pressurised system, so the pipework and DHW tank shouldn't need changing. New radiators would only be needed if you wanted to run at low flow temperatures - You may find the existing ones are big enough to keep the house warm at the expense of a longer wait to get up to a comfortable temperature.

vacheron

1404 said:

FreeBear said:

1404 said:

FreeBear said:

MysteryMe said: "They say it's on the "limited parts list".

Looks like the parts that are likely to fail are still available. Gas valve, PCB, fan, most gaskets.. Even the main heat exchanger - Just don't look at the prices though.

What kind of prices are we talking for new parts for an old Ideal boiler like mine? 

As said above, there is the option (hopefully) of getting refurbished parts. 

Using https://www.dhsspares.co.uk/category/gas-boiler-uk/brand/ideal-domestic/appliance/ideal-classic-ff-350-ide226 as a guide.

• Fan £180 (minus impeller.
• Gas valve £107
• PCB £140
• Pressure switch £110

1404 said:

As and when it comes to replacing my boiler, any ideas how much it would cost?

I would probably seek to get quotes from the Rated People app.

Would it be a straight swap of the boiler (ie not touching the water tank, pipes, rads etc)?  I can see that neighbours who've had their boilers changed seem to have have their flue pipe on the outside moved slightly. It has been said to me that mine is too close to a rainwater downpipe.

Assuming no changes to pipework & location, I've seen basic boiler swaps advertised for as little as £600 plus the cost of a boiler. But you will need the gas pipe upgraded to 22mm (possibly 28mm if a long run). TRVs should be fitted to all radiators (usually one is left to act as a bypass), and you'll want a modern programmable thermostat. Budget £3000-4000..

It is worth fitting new, larger radiators all round. The old ones will probably have been specified using 80°C as the flow temperature. Bigger radiators means you can run at a lower flow temperature which means much better efficiency and reliability. At 80°C, you'll be hard pushed to get 75-80% efficiency, drop to 60°C, you'll get ~92%, and at 50°C, you could hit 98%. Potential there to save 15-20% on gas.

But.... If you were to change your boiler now (before April 2028), I would urge you to consider a heat pump. With a £7500 grant currently available, the likes of Octopus are doing some very competitive quotes. They quoted me £2700 (subject to survey) earlier in the year - This would have included new radiators all round, a hot water cylinder, plus a limited amount of plumbing. I'd spent £2500 on a new gas boiler the previous year, and put in new radiators & replumbed the system on top (another £300-500 spent).

Correctly specified and set up, a heat pump would work out cheaper to run than gas (on the right tariff). And contrary to some, you don't need a super insulated house to have a heat pump. Although, good levels of insulation is desirable in any property.

Thank you for that. That's much appreciated!

Regarding the spare parts for the existing Ideal boiler I have:
This is certainly the cheapest option then. And especially as eBay have those parts for significantly less (although as stated above some of them are refurbished and I would need a GasSafe engineer who is willing to work with refurbished parts. Not sure if that's an issue?)
.......

But for now it seems that I should stick with my working old Ideal boiler and see how it goes. And when parts fail then try to source them from eBay (or buy new ones) and keep the Ideal going. Find a local GasSafe person and ditch British Gas HomeCare. Would you agree with that? 

There are some great companies out there doing very professional refurbished parts.

When I identified my fault as a completely worn fan assembly bearing, and not overwhelmed at the thought of paying £350 + labour for a new part, my search on eBay identified a company selling refurbished units for just over £70.

As further luck would have it, the company were literally a 5 minute drive from our house!

I popped in to see them that afternoon with the old fan unit out of my boiler, and after a quick inspection they identified that the fixing plate of their refurbished unit had a slightly different design. "No problem though, If you don't mind waiting 10 minutes we'll drill out the rivets from both units and fit your original plate to the new unit. Plus, if you don't mind waiting 20 minutes we can even sand blast your old plate to match the new refinished unit!"

The unit looks absolutely brand new, with new elastomer dampers and a full motor rewind. They then even gave me a £30 part exchange for my old unit!

These are the type of experiences that make me happy!