Smart Meters (options)

Eldi_Dos

BG have offered a £25 credit on each fuel if take up option of having new meters installed.When filling in details it has asked if I want meters to send readings every half hour or monthly.

What are the pro's and con's. I would like a meter that is easy to read myself as would like to continue to read meter monthly for my own records and peace of mind.

Netexporter

Half-hourly is best if you want to take advantage of TOU (time of use) tariffs, which can save you a lot of money. You don't see the half hourly readings, the meter just stores and transmits them. You read the meter like any other electronic meter, although if all goes well you won't need to.

Reed_Richards

Half hourly or monthly won't make any difference to whatsoever the meter you get and how easy it is to read yourself.  It's just a function setting and whichever you chose, you can change your mind later.  

Scot_39

Under DAPF (data access and privacy framework) for smart meters they have to ask - the default is daily - they need permission for 1/2 hourly - and legally you are allowed to demand they only see monthly frequency data resolution.

In reality theres very little I suspect to worry about - it was put in place to prevent any resistance to the roll out of smart meter - if you think you will benefit from any offers (*,**) - then it's probably best to just let them read 1/2 hourly.

It makes no difference to the meter itself - just what information B Gas are allowed to upload from it.

(*) It's possible that some of the BG offers - like Peaksave Sunday or whatever it's called - requires 1/2 hour.

Just checked the FAQ it reads like they will only use the 1/2 hrly during the event itself.

https://www.britishgas.co.uk/energy/peak-save/sunday.html

"Your smart meter will tell us. When you signed up to PeakSave, you agreed to let us take a smart meter reading every 30 minutes during PeakSave events so we can see exactly how much electricity you’re using."

(**) Other suppliers - BG if they do so - will also need it - the 1/2 hourly data - for other grid peak demand reduction schemes too.

They wont ask you to upload 48 daily readings if the smart meter doesn't fully communicate - so makes no difference to what you would need to enter manually should it be required.

As such - I suspect most people probably do allow the 1/2 hour option.

Ildhund

The choice isn't between half-hourly or monthly 'readings'. BG will respect your choice, which however involves two very different sets of data:
  

1. A smart meter will measure how much energy passes through it every half-hour. Not only does this present advantages for the customer - e.g. being able to see precisely how much your electric shower or the boy's games console is using, or taking advantage of tariffs that offer cheaper rates at certain times - but also for the supplier and the distributor, who buy and sell electricity in half-hour chunks at prices that vary all the time. Having half-hourly usage data from meters makes this much more accurate, doing away with estimates which are inherently inaccurate.
   These usage data are stored in the meter for more than a year, so they can be retrieved and examined if necessary (also by the customer, given a bit of help). If you 'opt out' of half-hourly readings, this just means that BG won't retrieve them every day as it would for a customer who opts in. They won't display handy charts on your account pages showing how your consumption varies through the day and night.
     
2. When the meter measures an amount of energy passing through it, it adds that quantity to its register which starts at day 1 and just keeps going. The supplier will by (Ofgem-mandated) default retrieve the reading of this register as it was at midnight (GMT) each day. You can opt out of this, so that register readings are only retrieved once a month to enable the supplier to issue a bill. Daily readings can give a picture of how the month is progressing, for example indicating whether usage is going to be more or less this month than last. This can help avoid nasty shocks when the next bill arrives.

So the choice is between half-hourly usage data or none, and between daily or monthly register readings. The half-hourly data option will include a daily register reading. I can think of no good reason why anyone should not want to take advantage of all the possibilities that half-hourly usage data and daily readings offer.
   

Reed_Richards

Ildhund said:

.
So the choice is between half-hourly usage data or none, and between daily or monthly register readings. The half-hourly data option will include a daily register reading. I can think of no good reason why anyone should not want to take advantage of all the possibilities that half-hourly usage data and daily readings offer.
   

I'm on a time of use tariff that requires half hourly readings of my electricity consumption.  I can access these myself through my supplier or through a third party.  These readings stopped for 15 days in March.  From the way my supplier dealt with this issue, I can see nothing to indicate that they have either daily or monthly register readings.  And can I access these register readings?    

spot1034

I moved to British Gas recently, taking advantage of their fix in August which almost exactly mirrored the July price cap. I opted for the half hour data - frankly I can't understand why anyone wouldn't - and within a day or two I had full details of my half hourly usage showing in my online account (in the form of a graph) which I now look at every day. 

There is no downside. You can still read the meter manually, but why deny yourself many of the advantages of having the smart meter?

Bendo

The meter stores the half hour readings as well as the index reads. The queation is does the customer consent to them pulling the half hour reads or do they just pull the index read, and if the later, how often.

Ildhund

Ofgem's words on reading frequency

Summarized by me:

 

Selected schedule	What it prescribes   for usage data	What it prescribes for meter readings
Half-hourly	48 quantities each day	1 reading each day
Daily	None	1 reading each day
Monthly	None	1 (or more) readings each month

Scot_39

 I can think of no good reason why anyone should not want to take advantage of all the possibilities that half-hourly usage data and daily readings offer.
  

Not all suppliers allow all of their customers any such advantages.

And not all of us can easily switch to those that do.

Daily or monthly registers is still data - the question is - what use is made of that 1/2 hourly data - and by whom.

If the customer isn't on a variable time of use tariff  - what else would a supplier do with that extra data ?

Certain anti smart sites will give you a list - and on variable TOU - they will I suspect focus far more on the negatives of variable time of use - the peaks not the troughs. 

Peaks like on agile that mean many find are better off on daily tracker as cannot avoid 4-7pm peak rate slots.  That's not anti smart conspiracy theory - that's now proven reality.


Those in govt rightly or wrongly spent months on the subject and drafted DAPF in response
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/smart-meter-data-access-and-privacy


Grid - and local distribution management - are not what suppliers do.
Barring your supplier from 1/2 hourly for billing purposes  - not necessarily all - does not stop others - including likes of NG and DNOs should they want / need to  - from accessing that data.

I could authorise an app to do so or a site like n3rgy - they would get data not from my supplier but from my meter directly.

Until recently many suppliers billing systems didn't even allow the flexibility to offer variable time of use tariffs based on the data.

Many still lag far behind likes of Octopus in offering any tariffs that do so. 

Or some like in my case - aren't even offering less regular advantages - like  demand flexibility service type savings to all of their customers - EOn dont on my tariff when asked.

There are literally millions - I suspect the majority of homes - who are only billed using daily smart or a lot less regular manual meter register readings.  The 41% as of q3 23 - not on smart at all and no doubt some of the 4m plus with faulty - i.e. non fully smart smart meters.

My daily smart figures enough for them to bill me accurately not only on monthly statement dates but also cap price change days like today. 

Data for data sake even at relatively low volumes involved - is just a waste of money and a regulatory obligation best avoided if can - at a supplier level.  Unless that it is of course arguably if it can be used for financial gain.

I like my smart meter and IHD - but just not as easily swayed by the to me unavailable financial pros - and accept the potential cons may exist for many.

I see no where near the level of risks in giving the 1/2 hourly data I have seen in anti smart posts. 

But those beliefs do exist.

Just because you are happy to give 1/2 hourly data - doesn't mean everyone will be. 

And that's why DAPF still exists - to protect them and their data.  Whilst ensuring the smart meter roll out can still continue. 

Albeit running many years behind schedule - there's a now almost laughable reference to a 2020 deadline in some of the dapf background reporting - given the 59% in q3 23 reality.

Other countries reaching for legal mandating- at least one using the stick of fines for those refusing.

Whether you agree or not - the smart meter roll out clearly doesn't have universal support.  

FreeBear

Scot_39 said: Daily or monthly registers is still data - the question is - what use is made of that 1/2 hourly data - and by whom.

If the customer isn't on a variable time of use tariff  - what else would a supplier do with that extra data ?

If the supplier is any good, half hour data can be used to generate consumption graphs for the customer to look at. The customer can then use the pictures to identify periods of large consumption and take steps to either shift the load or cut back.

Load shifting is only worth doing if on a ToU tariff that has dynamic hourly pricing.