Recent Penalty notice from APCOA Station car park

Money_man123

Ive recently received a Penalty notice from APCOA parking stating that two weeks ago my car was parked on Railway Assets in breach of the Railway Bye laws as displayed in the signage in the location. The ANPR camera shows a picture of my car entering car park at 07.45 and adjacent to it shows a very grainy picture with my REG underneath time stamped 17.21. They aledge that I parked my car and did not pay for a valid ticket. Now aware of the signage (20 mins free parking for drop off and pick up ) also displayed in the RINGO app for this car park, I did drive into the car park at 07.45 where i dropped my wife off who caught a train to London, and I drove off again within 4 minutes to drop my daughter at nursery then drove into London. I then returned at 17.10 to pick up my wife stayed for 11 minutes and drove out of the car park at 17.21. From what I understand I have been double dipped meaning their ANPR camera did not capture me leaving in the morning, it did also not capture me entering at 17.10. Unfortunately I don't have a lot of proof. I had a dash cam but regrettably it was not plugged in. I did have my WAZE navigation on at the time and upon research i was abler to access the driving locations history which show that I drove to different locations that day, however Im unsure if APCOA will recognise this as proof. I want to appeal this as I know I am 100 percent innocent  but sadly I am not sure I have enough evidence. At the most I could obtain a witness statement from the nursery to say I dropped off my daughter at 08.15 am but thats all I have. Should I appeal ? am I wasting my time? how far should i go with this ? 

Gr1pr

Forget the circumstances, there is no keeper liability at train stations, not where bylaws apply 

Read other APCOA and NCP GAA threads on here for bylaws appeals

Use the typical no keeper liability template where schedule 4 of POFA doesn't apply, appeal as keeper using the template , as seen in dozens of other railway station threads on here 

You could add a one liner sentence to the template stating 

The alleged breach did not happen because the driver made 2 short visits that day, not one long parking period, so check your flawed ANPR system for orphan images 

No blabbing about who was driving or about the circumstances on the day, so no stories, just the template 

Grizebeck

You go as far as six months when it will time out 

Money_man123

Do you think they will drop the charge on that ? I have no evidence to submit other than a screen shot of my waze recent locations on the date! 

Gr1pr

Doesn't matter, just do as I said, but string it out past the 6 months deadline for Penalty notices, appealing just before the deadlines, using templates. There is no need for speculation, just follow the advice 

Save any evidence for the later Popla appeal, if required 

Remember, no blabbing about who was driving or about the incident itself 

See this thread for information etc

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6548661/penalty-notice-apcoa-epsom-station-car-par/p1

Appeal as keeper using the template by troublemaker22 in the following thread , on day 26 following the issue date on the penalty notice 

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/80507251#Comment_80507251?utm_source=community-search&utm_medium=organic-search&utm_term=APCOA+POFA+appeal+

You can add my one liner to it due to it being a double dipping case if you want to 

The alleged breach did not happen because the driver made 2 short visits that day, not one long parking period, so check your flawed ANPR system for orphan images 

Money_man123

Thanks, I’ve never had this before so a little bit inexperienced with this. if I type this to the very last minute, quite clearly this has gone against their pay within 14 days and the price is reduced. if they reject my appeal, Do I have to pay the full fine of £85? And again, if I appeal it even higher and it potentially fails a few months down the line, but I still have to pay the full fine?

Gr1pr

There is no fine, just a penalty 

The 14 days is irrelevant, its to distract you 

Those threads I linked give you the complicated advice, which you may or more likely not understand 

Take it one step at a time, the main objective is to string it out until after the 6 months deadline, regardless 

You won't be paying anything, even if its all a mystery to you, as long as you don't reveal who was driving and always respond near the deadlines 

Either you follow our advice, or you don't, your choice, but if it was me I would be following the advice given 

Money_man123

No I'll absolutely follow your advice. In your opinion when i send my appeal using advised template on day 28 do you think APCOA will reject it ? then what happens next. Do I continue appealing not revealing the driver even though its my car ? 

Gr1pr

Day 26, not day 28, so just before the deadline 

Wait for their reply, don't speculate, I definitely won't speculate, but adding that extra line about 2 short visits and orphan images may make them realise that the breach never occurred and they may cancel it

If they reject it, appeal to Popla on day 30 following the rejection date, using a bespoke Popla appeal as seen in other APCOA penalty threads 

One aspect of all of this is that 6 months deadline, so that is why the processes are done just before deadlines

The keeper is appealing regardless, seeing as the PCN was sent to the registered keeper 

Those linked threads give you all the background you can read, understanding it is a different matter, some people never understand the topic 

Money_man123

Hi,  Just to be certain should i submit the initial appeal on Monday Oct 21st ? Should I add anything about the two photos they have attatched on the notice ? the first pic of entering is def reg keepers car but the second pic of exiting is very grainy, you cant see the car at all just the time stamp and car Reg printed on the bottom........   this is what i'm going to say in the appeal, please advise if you think i need to change anything : 

 

I appeal as keeper. The alleged breach did not happen because the driver made 2 visits that day immediately after the alleged ANPR entry time, not one long parking period as you suggested. So check your flawed ANPR system for orphan images. 

I am not obliged to identify the driver and I decline to do so. You are unable to transfer the driver’s liability (if any) to me because the location in question is not ‘relevant land’ as defined in Schedule 4 to the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (‘POFA’). Furthermore, even if (which is not the case) the location is relevant land, your notice  does not contain the mandatory warning required by POFA paragraph 9(2)(f) and it is now too late for you to deliver a POFA-compliant notice to keeper.  

I require you to cancel the notice or issue a POPLA code so POPLA can order you to cancel it.”

Please either cancel the notice or issue a POPLA code so POPLA can review and instruct you to cancel it.

Coupon-mad

Yes you can send anything, even a nursery rhyme and it will time out after 6 months. 

They won't drop it but it becomes statute barred. 

Nothing will happen.

Why not search the forum for:

APCOA railway penalty byelaws

Hundreds of threads. All the same.